Sorry Tibetans, you have got no oil.

[Dom Tuk]

is it not shameful that a govt that passes judgement on a tyrannical ruler like Hussein, who terrorised the Kurds and Shias and goes into a costly war to remove him, wines and dines the Chinese PM who was instrumental in causing maximum damage to the Tibetans when he was the governor. Now if Tibet had oil and vast amounts of it, things would be very different.

[bazwillrun]

yaaaawn........its called politics, its the way of the world, always has been ,always will be get used to it, get over it

[Dom Tuk]

You see Baz, i have no problem with your answer. Yes thats the way of the world, we will do it as it helps us keeps us in our standard of living and ensures our lifestyle and our wealth. But when we justify our actions and take a moral high ground and pretend that we are doing it for the good of the world and its people, thats what gets my goat.

[newtron]

I completely agree Dom Tuk. If Bush would have just come out and said that we need to secure our oil resources for the future, I think I would respect him a lot more. It makes perfect sense for a nation to strategically secure it's resources for the near future.

[january_bug]

Dom Tuk - you say "we justify our actions" but it's not WE is it?! It's the government. And the rest of the world is smart enough to see that the government does not have 100% backing from 100% of the voting public in everything it does.

Whilst I might agree with you on various points, you do seem a very unhappy and bitter person. I wonder, do you seriously consider emigration, because it seems at times as though you ought to. Just because you might actually be happier abroad... although I guess not the US (or France at the moment), presumably China's out, most of the middle East is, Germany's in a recession, Africa can be very dangerous, ditto with Latin America, so I suppose you might consider the Scandinavian countries.

I don't mean this as a dig, it's just that I've never heard you have ONE good thing to say about the country that you live in. It does seem that you are very very very unhappy here. I just do wonder what it is that keeps you here, given the ease and relatively low cost of air travel for return visits to friends and relatives, and to stock up on Marmite.

[qapmoc]

Yeah Newtron, It might make perfect sense when the oil is in somewhere far away like Iraq, but if it was your backyard and your friends and families which was getting wacked just for being in the place where the strategically required resources are, would you agree then.

[Dom Tuk]

getting personal are we now JB.

WE may not justify some actions and our elected Govts may chose to do in our name what they must, but to the wider world the British people are to blame. hence attacks on British targets and people in foreign lands. So when the rest of the world talks about the british role in slavery, imperialism, colonialism etc you and I are tarred by the same brush. You cannot be so naive as to think that its only the politicians that are to be blamed and we are blameless. Just as you and I would like to take credit for the British people who brought about the fabulous discoveries during the industrial revolution and the scientific excellence of the early and middle part of the last century. They are termed as British inventions and if you want the reflected glory of that you must be willing to accept the reflected tarnishing of our unsavoury acts.

No I am not an unhappy and bitter person. besides you may wish those who do not agree with your viewpoint to go away, even leave the country. Who are you to stifle my views on how this country that i love is run. Who are you to wish all form of dissent is unpatriotic. You can leave if you so wish but dont go about telling me why i should not live in this country.

[Clanad]

Funny thing about living in a Democracy... had Mr. Bush snubbed the Chinese P.M., the howls from the left about his inability to conduct foreign policy and alienating a market of some 1.4 billion people would have immediately errupted. I place this concern right up there with National Geographic Magazine running photographs on two overlapping pages stapled in the middle! By the way, exactly what is your solution to the immense problems posed by nations like Iraq?

May I ask,who, exactly, benefited from the oil reserves in Iraq? Do the words Oil for Food ring a bell? Right now, the Iraqi government is selling its oil on the open market and the income is being used by that governement. The fact that the U.S. pays premium price for it, along with other competing nations, I suppose, could be interpreted as our conquering them for their oil...

Fact is, we import almost as much oil from Great Britain as we do from Iraq... wonder what that portends...

[Dom Tuk]

Iraq became a problem when our countries decided to meddle. There was no WMD and they were not a clear and present danger as stated by our govts. If we had ignored what they did to their peoples, not supported a and installed a CIA stooge to run the country in the 50s then maybe we would not be in the situation that we are. Look at ZWE. Are they a problem for you and I. No. Not if we dont want it to be. Same goes with Iran. But i am sure you have heard these arguments ad nauseum.

As for making a disingenous connection between my National Geographic post and this one well here is a comparison for you. I dont hold much stock by someone who believes that our lives are guided by a superior being viz. Jesus Christ.

[january_bug]

I wasn't telling you to leave!!! You just GENUINELY come across as someone who HATES living here. You still haven't said much good about the country that isn't harking back to historical success. I honestly honestly wasn't having a go at you - and I made that quite clear. How quick you are to sharpen your knives Dom Tuk.

The reason why people attack British hotels, British journalists etc, is not because they blame these people personally, but because they believe that such actions will persuade the British government to change their policies in order to protect their people. Surely you can understand that.

I'm glad you hear that you are very very happy living in this country as it is and that you are not at all bitter about the current political and economic state of affiars. Your entire history of posting has had me fooled, I honestly thought otherwise.

For the FINAL time - I was trying to gain a better understanding of where you're coming from, something you've never bothered to do with me, or, as far as I can tell, anyone else on AB News. I wanted to understand a little better the circumstances that have led you to conclude as you do. If you take that attempt at understanding as an insult, there is little I can do.

[Chessman]

Dom Tuk, whilst I agree with your initial post, that last dig at clanad was out of order, and I think you should apologise. Don't forget, North Korea has WMD, but they threatened to use them if it looked like they were going to be attacked.

Jan-bug, I agree with you also, before we went to war, as a (sic) democratic country, we should have had a referendum, however, as things stand, I believe that this is still the best country in the world to live in. What was Pet Clarks song, 'The grass is always greener' etc, by the way, I love marmite.

[goldenboy]

i dont think it is necessarily fair to have a pop at dom tuk for his postings on the site. it could be argued that hie is providing a role of devils advocate to certain situations. should you not really do him the service of replying to the questions he poses rather than his general attitude to life. i may not agree with him on certain issues but i dont feel the need for him to move.

[Clanad]

Had there been WMD's, would you have been content... I don't think so. But the problem is you prefer operating in hindsight. Every head of state that had any interest in the Iraq region and their associated intelligence agencies stated, unequivocally, that Hussein was seeking and close to perfecting nuclear arms. This information was developed by others as well as the CIA. It was well known that he had already used chemical weapons and had absolutely no qualms about using them again. His interest in becoming a reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar was well known, especially among the heads of state in the region. So, tell me once again, how President Bush was able to hoodwink nearly everyone, including his predeccesors, of this faulty intellignece reporting? Lastly, no one has ever, at least to my knowledge, explained what the U.S. motive for initiating the conflict may have been, other than as stated in numerous resolutions presented to the and approved by the U.N. This is important, in my view, considering your evasion of explaining, against documented facts, that the U.S., singularly has not benifitted from Iraqi oil... (By the way, the last time I was really concerned about the content of the National Geographic Magazine, was at the age of 13 hoping there would be photos of more bare breasted native ladies in the next issue).

[Dom Tuk]

Apologies clanad, that last dig was unwarranted and unkind. I take it back.

[Chessman]

Thanks Dom Tuk, that was a nice thing to say.

[Clanad]

Anyone can get caught up in the heat of the moment... not a problem...

[january_bug]

goldenboy - I credit you with the ability to read and invite you to read the last post I made.

ONCE AGAIN - I was not asking for an explanaition, I was trying to UNDERSTAND the man. If that is SUCH a crime, then the world really IS in a sorry state. That trying to gain a little empathy with another human being gains me such abuse is a very sorry reflection on situation.

[january_bug]

Dom - what was the thing about not holding much stock for someone who belives in Christ?! Bit confused there - was that aimed at me?

[Ward-Minter]

I wouldn't say it was shameful. I would say it is common sense.

Don't mess with the Chinese, simply as that. They are too mightier a force to take lightly.

Further as the Chinese represent nerly one in three people in the world i suppose democratically they are right.

Off at a slight tangent, I also find the Chinese one of the most tolerant, polite, respectful, intelligent and nicest folk outside of upper-middle class Britain. Compared to the evil Middle East who deserve to be nuked by their anti-west stance.

[bernardo]

Most of the "question" is true. If Tibet had loads of oil, then it would have been rich and strong enough to resist Chinese domination on its own. But there isn't a question in the question, so I'm not sure what answer you want.

[blinkyblinky]

Regarding bazwillrun's initial reply, I can imagine news coming from Europe that Hitler had invaded Poland and bazwillrun saying "yaaaaawn... it's the way of the world.... get over it."

I would imagine one of the reasons why "we" invaded Iraq and wine and dine the Chinese Leaders is the same reason bullies pick on small kids in the playground and leave the bigger kids alone. The fact that it makes perfect sense makes it no less pathetic.