Society & Culture0 min ago
If You Dont Succeed Try Try Again
this smacks of desperation, or is it just the way politics runs in UK
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Answers
That’s the remain and EU way isn’t it. Keep going till you get the answer you want. Wear the people down enough and they get fed up enough to not bother to vote at all and the answer you want comes by default. Not a fare vote at all.
10:55 Sat 01st Dec 2018
“Where there IS scope for manoeuvre of course is on the post-Brexit treaty.”
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. If Mrs May’s “deal” (which is a legally binding treaty) is accepted by the UK there will be no post-Brexit treaty (certainly none of any significance). Mrs May’s deal binds the whole of the UK to the EU’s single market and customs union (and a lot more besides) until the EU thinks fit to negotiate something else. It will have no reason to do this because the terms of the (so-called) leaving deal suit it down to the ground. The political statement which accompanies the deal is a collection of wish lists and airy-fairy “statements of intent” which have no legal basis whatsoever and will, in all probability, simply be ignored. It certainly won’t do anything to improve the ridiculous situation that the UK will find itself in should Mrs May’s deal be agreed and the country will be locked into a treaty which it cannot rescind unilaterally (a position almost unheard of in modern economic and diplomatic relationships). That's why so may MPs are against the scheme. Those newspapers (such as the Daily Mail) which urge them to "put the country first" seem to ignore the fact that that is precisely what they are doing.
“chickens? eggs? doesn't matter. there is no time for a second referendum.”
As much as I’d like to agree with your sentiments, mush, I don’t share your optimism. As I said yesterday (or it may have been the day before or any time in the previous month, I really can’t remember) neither Westminster nor the EU has any stomach for a “no-deal” departure (which is far and away the best option and is what should have been prepared for since June 2016). Neither will let the trifling matter of the democratic process get in the way. Some means will be found to either extend A50 or begin some sort of (even more) “fudged” transition period. As much as I hate to say so (and I’d love to be wrong), we will not leave next March under “no deal”.
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. If Mrs May’s “deal” (which is a legally binding treaty) is accepted by the UK there will be no post-Brexit treaty (certainly none of any significance). Mrs May’s deal binds the whole of the UK to the EU’s single market and customs union (and a lot more besides) until the EU thinks fit to negotiate something else. It will have no reason to do this because the terms of the (so-called) leaving deal suit it down to the ground. The political statement which accompanies the deal is a collection of wish lists and airy-fairy “statements of intent” which have no legal basis whatsoever and will, in all probability, simply be ignored. It certainly won’t do anything to improve the ridiculous situation that the UK will find itself in should Mrs May’s deal be agreed and the country will be locked into a treaty which it cannot rescind unilaterally (a position almost unheard of in modern economic and diplomatic relationships). That's why so may MPs are against the scheme. Those newspapers (such as the Daily Mail) which urge them to "put the country first" seem to ignore the fact that that is precisely what they are doing.
“chickens? eggs? doesn't matter. there is no time for a second referendum.”
As much as I’d like to agree with your sentiments, mush, I don’t share your optimism. As I said yesterday (or it may have been the day before or any time in the previous month, I really can’t remember) neither Westminster nor the EU has any stomach for a “no-deal” departure (which is far and away the best option and is what should have been prepared for since June 2016). Neither will let the trifling matter of the democratic process get in the way. Some means will be found to either extend A50 or begin some sort of (even more) “fudged” transition period. As much as I hate to say so (and I’d love to be wrong), we will not leave next March under “no deal”.
There are quite a number of "people who matter" (amongst whom I do not number any politicians) who suggest that a No Deal Brexit will be the best form of departure for the long term welfare of the UK, Jim. They are people with entrepreneurial skills and experience who see our ties to the EU as a hindrance to our future growth the majority of which, by any measure, will be gained from outside the economically shrinking EU.
UK politicians collectively have failed to display any vision or opportunism that proper Brexit presents. Instead they have, from the outset, treated it as a damage limitation exercise and a problem to be overcome rather than an opportunity to take the country in a different direction. They have failed the nation in a disastrous fashion and it is no use, as you often do, "blaming the Leavers" for the situation we find ourselves in. The seeds of Brexit were sewn many, many years ago and the referendum was the inevitable result of the EU's utter contempt for democracy among its member nations.
It is no wonder that politicians fear a No Deal. Their contemptible shortcomings in planning, from the outset, to keep the country as closely aligned with the EU as possible singularly failed to understand what the electorate voted for. Their actions in doing so have left the No Deal option as a far more hazardous option than it should have been and will leave them with a lot to do (which they are not used to). If the UK "leaves" under Mrs May's deal the repercussions, even among Remainers, will last a lot longer than the end of next week, which, for many politicians, is the "long term".
UK politicians collectively have failed to display any vision or opportunism that proper Brexit presents. Instead they have, from the outset, treated it as a damage limitation exercise and a problem to be overcome rather than an opportunity to take the country in a different direction. They have failed the nation in a disastrous fashion and it is no use, as you often do, "blaming the Leavers" for the situation we find ourselves in. The seeds of Brexit were sewn many, many years ago and the referendum was the inevitable result of the EU's utter contempt for democracy among its member nations.
It is no wonder that politicians fear a No Deal. Their contemptible shortcomings in planning, from the outset, to keep the country as closely aligned with the EU as possible singularly failed to understand what the electorate voted for. Their actions in doing so have left the No Deal option as a far more hazardous option than it should have been and will leave them with a lot to do (which they are not used to). If the UK "leaves" under Mrs May's deal the repercussions, even among Remainers, will last a lot longer than the end of next week, which, for many politicians, is the "long term".
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