Trump Agrees To End Us Shutdown

[jim360]

In the first of two Trump threads I am planning to post -- the second will be, I hope, showing Trump in a more positive light than this one! -- it's time to distract ourselves from the ongoing Brexit argument by returning to the ongoing Trump argument!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47007081

The longest US government shutdown in recent history should have just ended, at least for now, as Trump's agreed to a deal that re-opens the government for three weeks. No money for the wall, but the next three weeks should still see some intense negotiations around how to deal with border security.

So, thoughts? Is this a "cave", something Trump had promised not to do? Is he trying to lose the battle to win the war? Has this all been a monumental failure? Are the Democrats geniuses, or are they now finally trapped into having to engage with border security on Trump's terms?

I leave the last word to Ann Coulter, a strong voice of the US Right:

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1088888030901882880

Ouch...

[Cloverjo]

I don't think 'caving' would be a bad thing. Nothing wrong with realising you've made a mistake and need to put it right.

He looked rather grudging though. I doubt this is the end of it.

[douglas9401]

Trumpty Dumpy had a great fall.

Yes, I know.

[jim360]

Arguably we shouldn't have seen this shutdown to begin with; and then, once it started (and Trump started it) he was insistent throughout that he had no intention of, in his words, "caving", and no intention of re-opening without getting the money he wanted for the Border Wall. Here's Trump just yesterday, for example:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1088470495312400384

and again two days before that:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1087693453394432001

and perhaps most significantly of all, this one:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083358150214979585

All of which leaves open the question of how Trump's supporters in the US will react.

[anneasquith]

“”we will not cave “ ... oops :’)

[New Judge]

Of course all of this (an similar "shutdowns") would be avoided if the USA altered its arrangements so that a disagreement between the President and Congress did not result in the country "shutting down". It is ludicrous that public employees end up without pay for weeks on end because politicians cannot agree with each other.

[Cloverjo]

I agree, NJ. I've asked these question before, but here goes again:
Who is the person that notifies the bank that Federal employees' wages should not be paid? And does he or she still get paid?

[ichkeria]

He was haemorrhaging support as people were rightly blaming him -approval rate 34%: only marginally higher than his mate Vlad .

[Khandro]

It seems extraordinary how the Democrats, aided and abetted by the left wing/ liberal media, have spun this to villainise the Donald. He won the presidency on this and other issues as a part of his manifesto platform, so one must assume that this wall is what the U.S. public want. He is simply trying to enable what he said he wishes to do for the benefit of the USA.
The blame for the measure of closing down the government lies at the door of the Congress majority not him, money is not the issue, it is pure politics,
Anyway, he will get the wall in the end, of that you can be sure.

[jim360]

The problem with that analysis, apart from all of it, is that the Democrats won pretty big in the Midterms, seizing control of the House. That gives them a pretty significant mandate to do what they are doing right now, namely to block Trump's funding for the Wall. It's also notable that during the two years when Republicans controlled all three houses, they still couldn't get the funding they wanted.

And no, it's no good blaming Congress for this shutdown over Trump. He took responsibility for it before it started: "I'd be proud to shut down the government", he said; and it was his refusal to sign a bipartisan bill that started things off.

I deliberately finished with a quote from Coulter, too, who has been cheering for the shutdown since before it began and is probably, if anything, even more responsible for the shutdown than Trump is. She's furious, clearly -- and she ain't a lefty.

[ichkeria]

“0 wicked wall through whom I see no bliss
Cursed be thy stones for this deceiving me”

Trump’s dream I fancy is dead ...

[Khandro]

When President Trump was elected, he promised to build a wall to protect Americans and to prevent foreign citizens from entering the country illegally. Despite the president’s efforts, Democrats have continued to refuse to adequately fund the wall, thereby resulting in a partial government shutdown.
Democrats have provided several reasons why they oppose the wall. However, when viewed in the proper context, these reasons appear to be insincere and motivated by the sheer desire to punish President Trump.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) recently explained why Democrats currently oppose Trump’s wall. First, he says, the wall is not effective compared to other security measures.................
Schumer’s first point is perplexing, given several comments that he made in 2009. As Ryan Saavedra noted on Twitter recently, Schumer said then that illegal immigration is wrong and that constructing a border wall would provide a “significant barrier to illegal immigration.”

[Peter Pedant]

// so that a disagreement between the President and Congress did not result in the country "shutting down".//

erm it is meant to work like that isnt it?
the consequences are so dire that the people involved know that they have to come to some sort of agreement - sooner and they keep their seats.

but Trump doesnt run his businesses like that does he?
that if the workers are revolting no matter how profitable the business is, you close it down?

[Peter Pedant]

// Democrats have continued to refuse to adequately fund the wall, thereby resulting in a partial government shutdown. //

is a complete non sequitur isnt it?

Dems refused to fund the wall
Trump closed down the government

Trmp has opened the govt and the dems are still refusing to fund the wall so it is difficult to say one led directly to the other causally

[ToraToraTora]

the first thing they should do is change the law so that any future shutdown includes their wages, then it'll be over in 5 minutes.

[ichkeria]

How would that work? They were shut down, not on strike

[ToraToraTora]

have a day off ich. Those affected did not get paid all I'm saying is that if congress members were also not getting paid it would have been resolved much quicker.

[ichkeria]

I’m not following you.
Everyone gets paid eventually.
It was Trump who shut down the government. I don’t see shutting down the government AND refusing to pay congress members who don’t agree with you helps.
I think you’d be looking at another revolution if you tried that ;-)

[Old_Geezer]

He's claiming it's conditional on getting funding soon though or he's hinted he would resort to a very powerful alternative (declare a national emergency ?). Any thoughts on how that'd go ?

Seems to me to claim control of the House gives Democrats a public mandate to block Trump's Wall is a similar argument to saying UK MPs have a mandate to overturn the Brexit decision. There was a decision made, it ought not be blocked because some don't like it and found the power to block it later. If change is required vote someone else in at the next presidential election.

[jim360]

I don't think that's in any sense a meaningful comparison. There was never a vote specifically on the border wall, so that no decision has actually been made (certainly not by the public); the Midterm elections carry quite a lot of democratic weight, too, so they can't be ignored -- indeed, they are equivalent to General Elections, since they elect the US version of MPs! -- and the President isn't the only one empowered to make decisions.

[Old_Geezer]

But it didn't need a vote on the issue itself; it was THE major issue Trump campaigned on, and was elected to achieve, so a vote for him was a vote for it.