lack of representations on Remembrance Sunday.

[mimififi]

Now, I realise that I may be opening a can of worms here, and I really don't want to come across rude or derogatory, but I was most upset today with the lack of representation from the Ethnic Minority communities at today's rememberance. My kids are in the St. John's ambulance and so did the march throught the highstreet with the cadets and the scouts etc to the war memorial where we listened to the bugal, observed the silence and had the jolly gun fire. We then marched back to the parish church for a 20 minute service and then marched again through the high street, complete with marching band etc etc.

Now, I completely understand why members of our ethnic comunities would not want to join in the service in the church, but just to turn out and observe the silence as a town together? We have a large ethnic community and I started to really look, and yet i did not see one single member in the crowd today. We are all living under the banner of freedom that came for a price, the price of our service men's lives, a freedom that means we can be who we like, when we like and yet I feel as though a large part of today's community don't give a monkeys about our old boys and don't feel it's anything to do with them??? Aren't we also recognising service men who have died more recently in more recent wars also? We all enjoy the freedoms of this country, I would have thought everyone would have wanted to pledge their allegience and mark their gratitude...

Am I being harsh? Is there something I've missed? If I have, please explain and then I can stop feeling so sad. Today's service has been really sorrowful for me because of this.....

[Chessman]

I couldn't go, I was working, and as a train driver, (London Undergroud), took a lot to the service, but I think the main reason, is because, in this country today, they don't instil a sense of pride or belonging, and not forgetting that with this present goverment, our history is being whitewashed. All these things need to be addressed most urgently.

I belong to my local British Legion, and was out with a tray of Poppies, and where I live, and it was noticable, it was mainly white people who bought them.

I think, mimfifi, that your post will prove to be a very contensious on, but one that needed to be said.

[jno]

It may just be that ethnic minorities didn't have much to do with the war themselves. Most of them did not live in Britain at the time - most immigrants from the Caribbean didn't come till after the war, brought out to man the buses and the NHS. Those who did contribute, for instance the Gurkhas, don't seem to be specially well treated now by the UK government.

So they may well feel no sense of community with those who died in the war, just as, if you emigrated to the USA, you wouldn't think US Civil War commemoration ceremonies had anything to do with you. (Indeed, you might even feel they were a private thing that specifically excluded you.) Those who actually lost family members in the war will doubtless remember them, like everyone else.

[mimififi]

I do appreciate that, jno, but my point is is that even though it may not have been their own family members that died in the war, and in fact wars, they still enjoy the peace and the freedom that was bought with those soldiers lives.

Indeed, servicemen are still dying and will continue to do so whenever their is a view that Britain needs protecting. I'm sure that on every other day of the year, if you asked people of minority descent what nationality they are, they would say "british". But sometimes it feels, only when it suits them.

If it hadn't been for our boys back then, we wouldn't be the country now that they would have been able to settle in...you wouldn't have been allowed to have been an "ethnic minority" in an alternate future.

I see your point about them feeling that maybe it is a private affair, but I think that may be a bit straw clutchy.

Chessman, well done for your work for the legion. Britian's soldiers and our then and now war widows need us...

Still feel sorrowful :-(

[jno]

well, to put it another way Drusilla, those who died in the war did so in defence of their countrymen, not in defence of (say) Jamaicans or Bangladeshis or even Irishmen. They were fighting for Britain and quite rightly so. In return, I'm not surprised if these people don't feel any sense of obligation. They have no obligation. That was why I suggested the analogy of emigrating to the USA. You might well feel it's a wonderful country (I do) but you wouldn't feel you had any right to take part in Civil War ceremonial alongside people whose family had died.

[jno]

yikes, sorry, not Drusilla at all - apologies mimififi, didn't read your name properly.

[shaneystar]

You may find this interesting mimi
http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/pages/blackhist.ht ml

[Chessman]

To carry on from mimififi's point, and shaneystar, thats a very good link, I repeat what I said earlier, I believe that pride and history of your country, is not taught properly nowadays, and a majority of 2nd, and 3rd generation immigrants do not look on this country as their home country. Its been said before, if you ask a young man, say, of Jamaican decent which is his country, for the most part, even though him and hi children were born here, he'll probably say Jamaica, but if you repeat this in America, he will say American.

And to repeat original point, these people, or their parents, chose to live in this country, the country whose freedoms they enjoy, which was bought in the blood of soldiers of all clours. The very least they could do, would be to show some respect, and buy a poppy.

[undercovers]

Many posters have stressed that without our brave fighting forces we would not enjoy the freedoms we now have but in the very next sentence criticised people for exercising those same freedoms - while a agree that rememberance, learning and understanding our history is important i really don't think you can expect everyone to act / show their rememberance in the same way e.g. attendance shouldn't be compulsory...

[indian]

As an ethnic minority I am saddened but not at all suprised by what you say mimififi. The asian communities older generation are more concerned about their country back home so don't really appreciate the history of this country.

The younger generation in this country as a whole, regardless of ethnicity are not educated very well on the subject. Many don't even know what the poppy stands for.

I am proud to say I am british and I appreciate this country, the culture, everything about it. I wanted to go to a remembrance ceremony in my town but had to go somewhere else which I couldn't avoid.

We used to have a one minute silence at school, but I don't know if this happens anymore.

[mimififi]

Indian, I am really really touched by your answer. I hope you haven't taken any offence by my comments. My spirits are lifted by the thought that I'm sure you are not the only person of ethnic origin who feels a pang of love for this country and those men who died fighting for what it is today.

There are so many criticisms about britain today, and I know that we are not all tolerant all of the time, but at this time of year, I think to remember the great wars (and recent ones) helps us to put into context the facts that while the NHS and schools and double yellow lines and all the other 'stuff' that we grumble about could in fact have been much worse. We could still be fighting the battle with tyranny and fear but for those old boys of yesteryear.

I'm so grateful for you posting. You are right, it is the education of this that is lacking. Everyone who feels 'British' should understand why we are silent on remembrance sunday. Our boys died for the britons of 45 and the britons of today, and we will salute them.

Thanks again, Indian, I have a lighter heart now.

[david small]

When in Rome....

[Gef]

Sorry but I feel that this question is just another typical moan. I wear a poppy and understand all that it stands for. However, if I was a recent immigrant why should I feel obliged to wear a poppy?

By the way, in the school where I work there are several Iraqi children. Should they be expected to wear poppies?

[indian]

Gef, I think what mimififi is saying is referring to those who have lived in this country for years, take advantage of all there is to offer and are happy to complain about it without thinking of what people had to and still are going through to keep us all safe.

mimififi, don't worry about offending poeple. I think that's why this country is the way it is nowadays because everyones afraid of offending minorities.

[funnywebsite]

Remembrance Sunday is full of old people standing around with wreaths. Most people have their own lives to live and are not interested in all this. You cannot make people stand around mourning. It is not their fault that the government of this country made people fight in other countries wars. Look at the Iraq war what damage it has done to this country. Innocent people have been killed on the tube and bus due to fighting in Iraq. There are many more people to get suicide bombed in the future till we get out of Iraq and other muslim countries and get on with looking after our own country. Time to stop being so picky with who mourns or not. Best to get on with your own beliefs and not expect others to copy you.