And He's Off

[youngmafbog]

Go 'Sir' Nigel

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6914049/Farage-vows-fightback-against-establishment-betrayal-Brexit.html

[Mamyalynne]

I'm rather like Shaneystar, the day after the referendum I was disappointed but accepting - the resultant debacle and bitterness and slanging matches have been dreadful to see.

It's clear that no one in power was prepared for how the vote went.

[dannyk13]

Shaney, there is a subtle difference between not liking and disagreeing.

[jno]

could Nigel be looking forward to some more of the EU gravy train if British voters elect him as MEP again? Twenty years as a fatcat so far...

[dannyk13]

jno, I think you do him a disservice by alleging that he is only in it for the money.

[shaneystar2]

Haha...I have yet to come across a politician of any persuasion who isn't in it for the money.They might have started out with a social conscience and the thought that they can make peoples lives better but that soon goes out of the window and they become power crazy as is witnessed by the shambles we are in now when none of them will compromise and bring an end to this misery..

[hereIam]

"I'ts clear that no one in power was prepared for how the vote went." That quote at 15:05 is spot on. A vote to remain was fully expected, even by me, a leaver, and it poleaxed the government and the majority of MP's when 'leave' won the vote. So, we now have to pay the price as said MP's battle to keep us in by fair means and foul and it doesn't get much fouler than going against the democratic will of the people who were offered a referendum and went for it !! RIP democracy, you died with the Brexit vote ..

[ichkeria]

“Never promise something you cannot deliver” I think ought to be the message.
Unless you have no hope of being ina position to deliver it anyway :-)

[New Judge]

//“Never promise something you cannot deliver”//

But they CAN deliver it, Ikky. They just won't.

[ichkeria]

As I’ve said before Brexit has failed.
It failed the moment people saw the withdrawal agreement, which was the unicorn made flesh :-)
Whatever sort of Brexit is delivered now, if ever it is, will be the sort of Brexit that no one really wants : I think you would agree with me there. But no outcome would have pleased everyone.
The brutal truth is that had the vote gone something like 80-20 for leaving the EU then there might have been a case for jumping off the cliff edge, but the country is divided more or less down the middle on this. So to get back to Nige and co: he tries to claim he is speaking for the majority of the people but of course he does not: his brand of Brexit has at an absolute best 40% support nationwide and I suspect even that figure is wildly overestimated (it assumes roughly 80% of Brexit supporters support it)

[New Judge]

//The brutal truth is that had the vote gone something like 80-20 for leaving the EU then there might have been a case for jumping off the cliff edge,//

The referendum held to decide whether or not to introduce a Welsh Assembly was held in September 1997. The vote in favour was 50.3% on a 50.2% turnout. The Government of Wales Act received Royal assent in July 1998.

There is no need for accommodations to be made for the losing choice following a binary referendum.

[Peter Pedant]

// There is no need for accommodations to be made for the losing choice following a binary referendum.//

then why have one? you just do what you were going to do anyway
( oh oops, that is what we have done already - - sozza about that )

[Peter Pedant]

// As I’ve said before Brexit has failed. It failed the moment people saw the withdrawal agreement, which was the unicorn fleshed out :-) //

no no - yes to continue the tortured example
and then some crazies jumped on the unicorn and screamed - this is an armoured nuclear tank - lets drive it over the cliff !
forward ho proles ! as some proles ( the thinkers ) ran the other way ......

[pixie374]

Yes it was a binary vote. It doesn't mean we should 52% leave and 48% remain.

[ichkeria]

The introduction of the Welsh Assembly was a bit more straightforward.

[New Judge]

So is leaving the EU. We have had 33 months (and now another seven) to adapt to being non-members. That's long enough. We cannot continually bleat "we can't do it! It's too complicated!". It's pathetic.

[ichkeria]

No it isn’t New Judge.
Behave ;-)
If it was easy it would have happened by now.
We had a Brexit Deal and Brexiteers in Parliament shafted it because it wasn’t the Brexit they wanted.
Why was it not the Brexit they wanted? Because there are different ways of Brexiting.
Not, as I say, straightforward.
If we had a referendum the people would have the chance to vote for it instead: then we could all move on admittedly only to the next stage.

[New Judge]

It hasn't happened because 80% of those in a position to ensure it does do not want it to happen.

"We had a Brexit Deal and Brexiteers in Parliament shafted it because it wasn’t the Brexit they wanted."

It wasn't Brexit in anything other than name. Mrs May's deal tied the UK to a Treaty from which it could not leave without the EU's permission. It created a customs border in the Irish Sea and no self-respecting Parliament could have supported it. Any Brexit has to involve the UK leaving the Customs Union, the Single Market and the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Anything that does not achieve that is not a "different kind of Brexit". It is no Brexit at all. Any agreement which does not achieve that is not a leaving agreement and since the EU will agree to nothing like a proper Brexit the only option is to leave without permission.

[Calicogirl]

No-one wants us to crash out and damage the country ( not that actually care about the country anyway). no good blaming us Remainers- we haven't changed our stance one iota- we are against leaving now and always have been- the issues are from within your own ranks- all power grabbing, bickering and back stabbing over what sort of Brexit each of them wanted and how it would best benefit them personally. Don't blame Remain, we just want to do exactly that- it was up to you to implement your leave vote, not us to help you do it.

[Peter Pedant]

// No-one wants us to crash out and damage the country ( not that actually care about the country anyway).//

well from my end I have heard endless
foo lets crash out and screw the economy !

isnt that what Jacob RM said - yes the same one that transferred his family money to the Republic ( south of Ireland to you Brits)

[New Judge]

I don't blame Remain voters, calico. They cast their votes but their view did not prevail. I blame Remain MPs. 80% of the current Commons stood on a manifesto to ensure the result of the referendum was implemented. They have demonstrated spectacular ineptitude (whether by accident or design) in doing so. But we keep on having the same debate on here.