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Muslims Gather In Birmingham To Celebrate The End Of Ramadan.
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/// Over 100,000 people from five different mosques gathered together for the outdoor Eid salah – the largest Eid celebration in Europe. ///
That is 20,000 from each Mosque, could that be true?
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That is 20,000 from each Mosque, could that be true?
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No I'm not an 'It's their culture coward ' at all, I think above and beyond all else ALL religions and their beliefs MUST come a healthy second place to UK law- and they do.
If we examine the holy books of any of the Abramic religions they all denigrate women, Islam, Judaism and Christianity. It's up to everyone in the UK to make sure that wherever we see inequality we act against it, firmly and unitedly, but that does not extend to forcing Islamic women for example not to wear the veil. Women need to be free to make decisions even if they appear to make no sense to us. For sure some Muslim women, just as some Jewish and some Christian women are cowed, abused, bullied and endangered by their menfolk and their culture, but it doesn't do to generalise that all Muslim women are oppressed and all Muslim men oppressors, that's simply not true.
If we examine the holy books of any of the Abramic religions they all denigrate women, Islam, Judaism and Christianity. It's up to everyone in the UK to make sure that wherever we see inequality we act against it, firmly and unitedly, but that does not extend to forcing Islamic women for example not to wear the veil. Women need to be free to make decisions even if they appear to make no sense to us. For sure some Muslim women, just as some Jewish and some Christian women are cowed, abused, bullied and endangered by their menfolk and their culture, but it doesn't do to generalise that all Muslim women are oppressed and all Muslim men oppressors, that's simply not true.
//but it doesn't do to generalise that all Muslim women are oppressed and all Muslim men oppressors, that's simply not true//
Agreed.
Now separate the parts. Iran has a dress code for women which is enforced, isn't it, CalicoGirl? Same for Saudi Arabia? Same for Swat valeey Pakistan. Aceh province Indonesia?
How many of the Pakistani and Somali men who live in this country and are fundamentalists would not be equally oppressive if they had the power? They've already contrived with their local allies to accept FGM, for instance.
Agreed.
Now separate the parts. Iran has a dress code for women which is enforced, isn't it, CalicoGirl? Same for Saudi Arabia? Same for Swat valeey Pakistan. Aceh province Indonesia?
How many of the Pakistani and Somali men who live in this country and are fundamentalists would not be equally oppressive if they had the power? They've already contrived with their local allies to accept FGM, for instance.
//Lots of evangelical Christian churches are absolutely misogynistic and there are instances all through Christianity of the church oppressing women//
Absolutely right. However few of these practices are mainstream in modern Western democracies, and there are no examples of mysogynistic laws being incorporated in modern legislatures. Outside Islamic countries, of course. The reviled Israel does not have Torah prohibitions, far less Torah punishments for homosexuality and adultery. So if you're a Muslim and gay you'd be considerably safer living under Israeli law and its protections than living in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
The difference between Jews (and Christians) on the one hand, and Muslims on the other, is that the former group Deuteronomy and Leviticus should be consigned to the scrap-heap while the latter group believe that the savagery of 7th century Islamic law and its penal code are valid for all time and in all places. One such place and place might might be Birmingham, England, June 6th 2019.
I would like to hope that intelligent people can work out the important difference between the two mind-sets.
Absolutely right. However few of these practices are mainstream in modern Western democracies, and there are no examples of mysogynistic laws being incorporated in modern legislatures. Outside Islamic countries, of course. The reviled Israel does not have Torah prohibitions, far less Torah punishments for homosexuality and adultery. So if you're a Muslim and gay you'd be considerably safer living under Israeli law and its protections than living in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
The difference between Jews (and Christians) on the one hand, and Muslims on the other, is that the former group Deuteronomy and Leviticus should be consigned to the scrap-heap while the latter group believe that the savagery of 7th century Islamic law and its penal code are valid for all time and in all places. One such place and place might might be Birmingham, England, June 6th 2019.
I would like to hope that intelligent people can work out the important difference between the two mind-sets.
I wonder what those brave D-Day survivors I was watching today think about 100,000 Muslims gathering in a public park in Birmingham to celebrate the end of Ramadan.
Not exactly a large, visible Muslim presence at the D-Day celebrations, to give thanks for the sacrifices made to keep our country free so they could gather in such numbers in a park, was there?
Not exactly a large, visible Muslim presence at the D-Day celebrations, to give thanks for the sacrifices made to keep our country free so they could gather in such numbers in a park, was there?
Viewed on the whole, are women in Western (once Christian, but now largely secular) societies better or worse off than those women living in (pick a country of your choice) a Muslim majority country?
And if you can answer the starter for ten (not too difficult, CalicoGirl), then there's a more valuable bonus: why are today's western societies better for women and gays than most of today's Islamic societies? And is the increased "Islamification" of Europe - this is a demogrpahic observation, by the way, as in half of all births in some cities are Muslim and the most popular name for boys is Mohammed or some variant thereof - going to be good or bad for women and gays?
And if you can answer the starter for ten (not too difficult, CalicoGirl), then there's a more valuable bonus: why are today's western societies better for women and gays than most of today's Islamic societies? And is the increased "Islamification" of Europe - this is a demogrpahic observation, by the way, as in half of all births in some cities are Muslim and the most popular name for boys is Mohammed or some variant thereof - going to be good or bad for women and gays?
Forces from Australia, Belgium, Canada Czechoslovakia, Denmark, France, Greece, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, The Netherlands, the United Kingdom and the United States all took part in the D-Day landings.
There may have been Muslims from those countries involved but clearly other nations with a mainly Muslim population were not involved so there is no reason for them to have been represented at the events.
There may have been Muslims from those countries involved but clearly other nations with a mainly Muslim population were not involved so there is no reason for them to have been represented at the events.
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