Is It Time For Gun Control How Can Australia Manage It And Not America?

[gordiescotland1]

Is it time for gun control in America? Yet we have another horrendous mass shooting of innocent people. Australia managed it incredibly quickly how come America can't. Something has to be done

[andy-hughes]

ummmm - // Andy - wasn't Shipmans motives for financial gain? //

Not in all cases - the perceived wisdom is that he developed a 'God' complex, and simply enjoyed the power of life, or actually death, over his patients.

My use of Shipman is an illustration that not every psychopath is picked up by analysis, for example, by tests for fitness to own a gun.

I am willing to bet that, had old Harold been a shooting fan, he would have sailed through the tests undetected.

But that actually point I have tried (and thus far failed!) to make with Retrocop, is that is assertion that NO-ONE (his caps) in his gun club would go on a rampage is simply not a believable statement, because anyone at any time can go on a rampage, with no warning or prior evidence.

It's a simple point, but it got lost in the red mist when Retrocop read it, and he went off on one.

Tomorrow is another day, hopefully he will have calmed down and may want to come back on the point I made.

[retrocop]

ummmm
Of course they can't.

[andy-hughes]

retrocop - // ummmm
Of course they can't. //

The point I am making using Doctor Shipman is - if you read my post at 21:59 - that psychopaths often do not present behaviour indicating that they are going to kill someone - which is why they are not stopped in advance of the killing.

[naomi24]

This subject always leads to irrational arguments. We have guns, we have never belonged to a gun club, our guns are kept in a specially constructed steel
cabinet that has two separate locks, the keys are kept in our safe, and the ammunition is stored separately. The police visit us to do their checks about every five years.

The simple fact is that people who intend using guns for illegal purposes don’t apply for licences. Nevertheless, they are able to acquire guns.

[jim360]

On the other hand, it's harder to acquire guns if there aren't gun stores all over the place in which, in order to buy a gun, very often all you need is the money rather than specialist knowledge of underhand buyers.

[naomi24]

True, but the fact remains that if anyone wants a gun they will get one - even in this country.

[jim360]

I don't doubt that you can't stop someone from getting a gun if they're absolutely determined to do so. But the fact that it's harder in this country still has hugely beneficial consequences. The last time anyone was able to carry out a mass shooting in this country was in 2010 -- and he'd held both weapons legally. Since then, the US has managed at least one mass shooting a month, depending on how you define it.

The key difference is clearly availability of firearms. It's a mistake, I think, to focus on the determined criminals, of which there are very few, in favour of the more spontaneous criminal.

[naomi24]

//he’d held both weapons legally//

So much for the much lauded gun control. I rest my case.

[jim360]

What?! The UK has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world but I don't think anybody expected them to be 100% effective. On the other hand we've had one mass shooting incident in a decade, and gun crime rates are incredibly low. And your answer to one failure in a decade would be to abandon the system altogether?

[naomi24]

Don’t put words in my mouth. I haven’t suggested abandoning the system. I’m simply saying that gun control is no guarantee that guns won’t be used for illegal purposes.

[jim360]

And in any case there were several freak circumstances surrounding the 2010 issue, eg suspicions of paranoia etc. You can't legislate for that. But it's difficult to argue that mass shooting incidents would be even lower than 1/decade if guns were more widely available.

[jim360]

That's a relief. But in that case you're making a non-point. Nobody can seriously argue, that gun control is a guarantee that nobody will get hold of a gun and start shooting people. The success threshold can't be set impossibly high. But it's pretty clear that since we introduced strict gun control laws in the UK, the rate of gun violence has plummeted.

[naomi24]

I’m not arguing that either.

[jim360]

My own 10:20 post was written before I'd seen your 10:20 post.

[naomi24]

^that to 10.20.

[naomi24]

Retrocop, the last firearms officer who came to check us had been a royal protection officer. We had a very interesting conversation with him. A fascinating job.

[anotheoldgit]

Strange how some are ready to show more concern about these horrible killings in the US and blaming it on the Far-Right and a rise in White supremacist, yet little condemnation is shown as regards the almost daily killings on the streets of our own capital and other towns and cities.

Since the large proportion of these killings are carried out by none whites, would it be in order to say that there is a rise in Black Gangsterism, or would that be racist?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - // Strange how some are ready to show more concern about these horrible killings in the US and blaming it on the Far-Right and a rise in White supremacist, yet little condemnation is shown as regards the almost daily killings on the streets of our own capital and other towns and cities.

Since the large proportion of these killings are carried out by none whites, would it be in order to say that there is a rise in Black Gangsterism, or would that be racist? //

You have an unfortunate habit of referring to something completely unconnected with the OP, in order to shoehorn a similarly unconnected race issue, which enables you to use your favourite word.

If I am discussing the concept of fun control in America and Australia, I am not likely to bring in the situation regarding crimes in the UK, because it is not appropriate - but i will certainly debate the issues should an appropriate thread appear on the site.

So to infer, as you so often do, that discussing one issue infers indifference to another is not only insulting, it advances the current discussion not one iota.

[andy-hughes]

Sorry, for 'fun', please read 'gun'!

Of all the inappropriate typos … !!!

[retrocop]

//Retrocop, the last firearms officer who came to check us had been a royal protection officer. We had a very interesting conversation with him. A fascinating job.//

Most certainly was Naomi. I have been places and met people all over the world.
Better than sitting in an office and logging into Answerbank all day. :-)