Body & Soul10 mins ago
How Is Juncket Going To Force An Unwilling R O I To Build And Enforce A Border Post No Deal Brexit?
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"A hard border will return on the island of Ireland if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, Jean-Claude Juncker has told Sky News. The European Commission president said he would not be the architect of no-deal but the bloc would have to act to protect its citizens' health and safety."
"A hard border will return on the island of Ireland if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, Jean-Claude Juncker has told Sky News. The European Commission president said he would not be the architect of no-deal but the bloc would have to act to protect its citizens' health and safety."
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//If it comes to it, the EU will set up the border,…//
Really? Does the EU have a border force, then? Does it have the authority to use that force in one of its member nations?
//Wasn’t the whole Brexit vote about taking back control of our borders. That is what Farage, Vote Leave and LeaveEU said Many times before the Referendum//
//We take back control of our border by declaring we are not going to have any controls?//
You (and others) keep spouting this drivel, gromit. You always forget to add the little bit which is of most significance: Brexit is about taking back control of our borders as we see fit. For many years the UK and Ireland have seen fit not to impose border controls on the island. This stretches back to 1923 when the Common Travel Area was set up following Ireland’s secession from the UK. This has remained the position apart from during WW2 and the “Troubles”. The current Common Travel Area also includes the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man (neither of which are part of the UK) - a sort of mini "Schengen Area" if you like, but one of the UK's own choosing. So to say that once we have left the EU and are "taking back control" the border must suddenly be imposed is utter nonsense.
//And now the same lying hypocrites are saying they don’t want to defend our Border with the EU, they will leave it open, and it is up to the EU to do it (and pay for it).//
See above. The UK has no wish nor any need to “defend our border with the EU”. It does not expect the EU to do it and does not expect the EU to pay for it. It is the EU that is insisting on “defending its border” in Ireland, not the other way round. What they do, how they do it and who pays for it is entirely a matter for them. Personally I have no interest in how Ireland or the EU patrols their borders. You are either continuing to be confused by the issue and seem to believe that everybody else is or you are being deliberately obtuse.
Really? Does the EU have a border force, then? Does it have the authority to use that force in one of its member nations?
//Wasn’t the whole Brexit vote about taking back control of our borders. That is what Farage, Vote Leave and LeaveEU said Many times before the Referendum//
//We take back control of our border by declaring we are not going to have any controls?//
You (and others) keep spouting this drivel, gromit. You always forget to add the little bit which is of most significance: Brexit is about taking back control of our borders as we see fit. For many years the UK and Ireland have seen fit not to impose border controls on the island. This stretches back to 1923 when the Common Travel Area was set up following Ireland’s secession from the UK. This has remained the position apart from during WW2 and the “Troubles”. The current Common Travel Area also includes the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man (neither of which are part of the UK) - a sort of mini "Schengen Area" if you like, but one of the UK's own choosing. So to say that once we have left the EU and are "taking back control" the border must suddenly be imposed is utter nonsense.
//And now the same lying hypocrites are saying they don’t want to defend our Border with the EU, they will leave it open, and it is up to the EU to do it (and pay for it).//
See above. The UK has no wish nor any need to “defend our border with the EU”. It does not expect the EU to do it and does not expect the EU to pay for it. It is the EU that is insisting on “defending its border” in Ireland, not the other way round. What they do, how they do it and who pays for it is entirely a matter for them. Personally I have no interest in how Ireland or the EU patrols their borders. You are either continuing to be confused by the issue and seem to believe that everybody else is or you are being deliberately obtuse.
Yes. Conflate control to mean the opposite.
If it’s conflated in your head then it won’t make sense to not have a hard border.
WE will have control over what WE do with the border. WE can chose to not have a hard border and use technology as we do in other parts of the UK and for other countries in the world.
Can you see how control works?
If it’s conflated in your head then it won’t make sense to not have a hard border.
WE will have control over what WE do with the border. WE can chose to not have a hard border and use technology as we do in other parts of the UK and for other countries in the world.
Can you see how control works?
TCL: "TTT, what is your answer to the possibility of the EU imposing fines on the ROI if they don't introduce a hard border? " - Well they have 2 choices, pay the fines or not, neither gets a border built. The EUSSR can of course deduct the fines from the rebate, but similarly Ireland can just refuse to pay their dues. If EUSSR ramp it up then they'll force an irexit. Currently (thankfully) the EUSSR have no direct way of forcing an issue. That's why they want EUSSR wide forces so they can, in the future, enforce this kind of thing.
//Are you suggesting the want united EU defense forces so they can invade (or at least, threaten) anyone who refuses to tow the line?//
I don't think Tora was suggesting that at all. At present the EU has no Border Force. It relies on those of individual member nations to protect its integrity. An EU-wide Border Force (controlled by the Euromaniacs but paid for my the members) will cure that deficiency.
I don't think Tora was suggesting that at all. At present the EU has no Border Force. It relies on those of individual member nations to protect its integrity. An EU-wide Border Force (controlled by the Euromaniacs but paid for my the members) will cure that deficiency.
//There seems a number of answered questions that keep cropping up again and again as if they meant something.//
Geezer, once again, in his understated manner hits the nail on the head. The Remainiacs of course keep propagating the same question in all it's hybrid forms........because they don't like the answer. They are trying to make the "question" more important than the answer, as if it puts off the truthful revelation that always follows an honest question. When we refuse to engage with the confected "false concern" and say........this is how we are.....got it? Now where are you? They will stop asking what colour number 9 is.
Geezer, once again, in his understated manner hits the nail on the head. The Remainiacs of course keep propagating the same question in all it's hybrid forms........because they don't like the answer. They are trying to make the "question" more important than the answer, as if it puts off the truthful revelation that always follows an honest question. When we refuse to engage with the confected "false concern" and say........this is how we are.....got it? Now where are you? They will stop asking what colour number 9 is.
Some nations cooperate, some confront. How many here are at all aware that, just as an example for just one country, in recent years Iceland has had both a ship and an aircraft operating in the Mediterranean patrolling as part of the EU's Border Agency's monitoring of EU borders ? Iceland is not even a member of the EU but it is in the EEA and Schengen, it is far from the Mediterranean. This work is paid for by the EU and Iceland is not forced to do it.
It is my firm belief that the UK is no more likely to leave a whopping great hole in its border than is the EU - or else what was all the stuff about taking charge of the border about ? Any suggestion that the UK would be unworried/disinterested in such an outcome and leave it wide open (on/around the island of Ireland) is pure bunkum.
It is my firm belief that the UK is no more likely to leave a whopping great hole in its border than is the EU - or else what was all the stuff about taking charge of the border about ? Any suggestion that the UK would be unworried/disinterested in such an outcome and leave it wide open (on/around the island of Ireland) is pure bunkum.
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