Body & Soul6 mins ago
Of Course It's All Our Fault....right Oh Junkett!
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The EUSSR have refused point blank to negotiate beyond the unacceptable brino deal with a back stop but it's all our fault!
The EUSSR have refused point blank to negotiate beyond the unacceptable brino deal with a back stop but it's all our fault!
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have you ever taken our side on anything gromit? They agreed an unacceptable deal with Treason May and have not budged since. They must know that no nation could have accepted that deal, even your remoaner mates wouldn't accept it. So if I offer you a deal and you don't like it but I do it's your fault for not accepting it is it? Right oh! standard Anti British thinking that one.
it looked like that Gromit but May is basically a remainer and her "deal" was more of a - hopefully we can get this through - collaboration with the EUSSR. No nation could accept the strings attached to that, not just the backstop but most of the rest is unacceptable, even to remainers. It was worse than Chamberlains "piece of paper".
Of course they'd say that. They've been trying to pin the blame on their actions on the UK every since this kicked off. They will only fool those who want to believe because otherwise they'd need to change their cherished opinions regarding the EU and Brexit.
One trusts the rest of the world, despite seeing how unrepresentative our representatives in parliament are, can also see through the EU claims and realise that the EU are the ones who have remained justifiably intransigent and unwilling to compromise on border security for the sake of peace in Europe.
One trusts the rest of the world, despite seeing how unrepresentative our representatives in parliament are, can also see through the EU claims and realise that the EU are the ones who have remained justifiably intransigent and unwilling to compromise on border security for the sake of peace in Europe.
The stuff that Boris Johnson is allegedly doing now - ie attempting to negotiate an acceptable deal while at the same time preparing for the possibility of no deal - should have started three years ago, and it should have been him doing it, except he chickened out, and left May to take her 'damage limitation' brino approach.
With four weeks left it now looks ridiculous. The whole thing's been a complete balls up from start to finish.
With four weeks left it now looks ridiculous. The whole thing's been a complete balls up from start to finish.
//The UK negotiated a deal with the EU.//
Incorrect. Mrs May agreed the text of a draft agreement with the Senior Euromaniacs over a few agreeable dinners. She knew that she did not have the authority to conclude that agreement without concurrence from the UK Parliament. So it was not a deal, it was a proposal – one which, despite trying to bounce Ministers and Parliament into agreement three times - was thankfully soundly rejected.
//If Parliament had agreed May’s plan, we would have Brexitted from the EU months ago.//
No we would not. All that would have happened is that our name would have been crossed off the list of members. We would still be in the Single Market, we would still be in the Customs Union, and we would still be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. As if that wasn’t enough evidence that we had not left, there would be a customs border down the Irish Sea imposed by the EU and we could not rescind that alternative EU Treaty (for that's what it was) without agreement from the EU. I don't think there was one observer who could cite a treaty (other than those ending a war) from which there was not the ability for one side to end it with the appropriate notice. That is not “leaving” by any stretch of the imagination.
// I think that's the issue.. you still feeling living with people is about sides. We're all part of the same thing TTT we should work together. Sides? What is this the playground?//
And you demonstrate incredibly childish naivety, spathi. It would be great if there were no “sides” but there are. The problem has arisen because from June 24th 2016 there has been a concerted effort to prevent the result of the referendum being implemented. There should only have been one side – the side that said “let’s get on with this and make it the best we can for the UK”. Instead there was a large element who refused to accept the result and, under the disguise of securing a “deal”, has done all it can to frustrate our departure. Hopefully the wool has been lifted from the eyes of those people who believed that it was only the manner of our departure which concerned them. The truth is for all to see – those MPs who voted to grant the referendum, who voted to implement A50 and who stood on a platform of implementing Brexit at a General Election have now turned reversed their position. They refuse to allow Brexit, deny a General Election (which would be the normal way to settle such issues) and simply keep frustrating the government “in the name of Parliamentary democracy” which apparently they hold so dear. So there are two sides and those indulging in playground antics are the MPs who led the electorate to believe their decision would be implemented. Instead they now say "Ha ha! I didn’t really mean it. I had my fingers crossed”.
Incorrect. Mrs May agreed the text of a draft agreement with the Senior Euromaniacs over a few agreeable dinners. She knew that she did not have the authority to conclude that agreement without concurrence from the UK Parliament. So it was not a deal, it was a proposal – one which, despite trying to bounce Ministers and Parliament into agreement three times - was thankfully soundly rejected.
//If Parliament had agreed May’s plan, we would have Brexitted from the EU months ago.//
No we would not. All that would have happened is that our name would have been crossed off the list of members. We would still be in the Single Market, we would still be in the Customs Union, and we would still be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. As if that wasn’t enough evidence that we had not left, there would be a customs border down the Irish Sea imposed by the EU and we could not rescind that alternative EU Treaty (for that's what it was) without agreement from the EU. I don't think there was one observer who could cite a treaty (other than those ending a war) from which there was not the ability for one side to end it with the appropriate notice. That is not “leaving” by any stretch of the imagination.
// I think that's the issue.. you still feeling living with people is about sides. We're all part of the same thing TTT we should work together. Sides? What is this the playground?//
And you demonstrate incredibly childish naivety, spathi. It would be great if there were no “sides” but there are. The problem has arisen because from June 24th 2016 there has been a concerted effort to prevent the result of the referendum being implemented. There should only have been one side – the side that said “let’s get on with this and make it the best we can for the UK”. Instead there was a large element who refused to accept the result and, under the disguise of securing a “deal”, has done all it can to frustrate our departure. Hopefully the wool has been lifted from the eyes of those people who believed that it was only the manner of our departure which concerned them. The truth is for all to see – those MPs who voted to grant the referendum, who voted to implement A50 and who stood on a platform of implementing Brexit at a General Election have now turned reversed their position. They refuse to allow Brexit, deny a General Election (which would be the normal way to settle such issues) and simply keep frustrating the government “in the name of Parliamentary democracy” which apparently they hold so dear. So there are two sides and those indulging in playground antics are the MPs who led the electorate to believe their decision would be implemented. Instead they now say "Ha ha! I didn’t really mean it. I had my fingers crossed”.
Brexit was a unilateral decision by Britain. Years were spent doing a deal: then Britain’s parliament voted against it.
Originally if you remember Parliament wasn’t going to get a say. It was not the EU which forced the government to change that.
Whether you think the deal is “good” or “bad” is a matter of opinion.
Even the backstop which is supposedly the great evil which the EU isn’t going to back down on was something the UK asked for. And which some countries don’t like. It’s only an issue because the govt is being held to ransom by the DUP. And even if they weren’t, there are plainly enough Brexit ultras determined to vote against ANY deal probably to stymie one if it does come back.
All the stumbling blocks to Brexit and all the means to extricate ourselves from it are in the hands of the UK.
So if one is going to pay the blame game, which is a pity actually, it’s pretty clear where it lies.
Originally if you remember Parliament wasn’t going to get a say. It was not the EU which forced the government to change that.
Whether you think the deal is “good” or “bad” is a matter of opinion.
Even the backstop which is supposedly the great evil which the EU isn’t going to back down on was something the UK asked for. And which some countries don’t like. It’s only an issue because the govt is being held to ransom by the DUP. And even if they weren’t, there are plainly enough Brexit ultras determined to vote against ANY deal probably to stymie one if it does come back.
All the stumbling blocks to Brexit and all the means to extricate ourselves from it are in the hands of the UK.
So if one is going to pay the blame game, which is a pity actually, it’s pretty clear where it lies.
I don’t think Johnson would have won a leadership election at that time actually. Even if Michael Gove had not done what he did, which was to call him out as a man unsuitable to be PM. A fact now amply demonstrated.
He’s only in there now because the Tories are by now so desperate that even Gove is prepared to throw in his lot with him.
He’s only in there now because the Tories are by now so desperate that even Gove is prepared to throw in his lot with him.
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