Should Uefa Now Ban Bulgaria From Playing Any More Matches.

[anotheoldgit]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7572575/Englands-Euro-2020-qualifier-Bulgaria-halted-alleged-racist-abuse.html

[anotheoldgit]

I was referring to the fact that if the opposing fans took a dislike to a particular skilled player who did not happen to be black would it be racist of them if they targeted him with their insults etc?

[Mozz71]

No, because those insults would not be because of his race. There is no way a monkey chant can be perceived as anything other than racial.

Unless its being made be an actual monkey.

[anotheoldgit]

/// No, because those insults would not be because of his race ///

It would if they were playing against a player who happened to belong to a white race.

[THECORBYLOON]

If black fans called a white player "a white @#$!" for example, that would be racist.

[steg]

// I was referring to the fact that if the opposing fans took a dislike to a particular skilled player who did not happen to be black would it be racist of them if they targeted him with their insults etc?//

I remember willie Johnston playing for hearts getting showered with rizla packets to chants of willie willie roll us a joint, I also remember mark Walters first game for Rangers getting showered in bananas to monkey chants

One was black one was white, do you think both racist?

[THECORBYLOON]

Do you think there is a major issue with white players being racially abused?

[Mozz71]

AOG, why would it be? This fictitious player isn't being abuse because he is white. The black players were being abused solely because of their colour. I'm not sure what you are failing to grasp here.

[Mozz71]

Steg. No, they are completely different. Johnston failed a drugs test at the world cup didn't he? What the hell has that got to do with race?

[steg]

// Steg. No, they are completely different. Johnston failed a drugs test at the world cup didn't he? What the hell has that got to do with race?//
Yes
Nothing
It’s to do with the quote :
// I was referring to the fact that if the opposing fans took a dislike to a particular skilled player who did not happen to be black would it be racist of them if they targeted him with their insults etc?//

[Mozz71]

Sorry Steg, my mistake.

[steg]

No probs
Thanks

[ludwig]

// Bans are all very well but you need to address the problem: what happens when the ban ends? It all starts again. //

Fine, so they continue to be banned until such time as they've addressed the problem. If they never address it, they can never play in international tournaments.

[CrapAtCryptics]

Facial recognition would have helped identify the culprits but nobody seems to like using it.

[Lie-in King]

To the OP - no, but as has been said by others, I think "closed-door" matches are merited for the next couple of fixtures at least. If they can be played in a neutral country, even better.

[ludwig]

// I think "closed-door" matches are merited for the next couple of fixtures at least //

Why penalise other teams by excluding their well behaved fans?

[Ken4155]

Ludwig, your two posts appear to contradict one another.On one hand you say matches played behind closed doors would punish the 'well behaved' fans of the opposing team while on the other you appear to agree to the banning of the Bulgarian national side from future European comps. Would that not also be punishing the 'well behaved' fans of Bulgaria. It was, after all, only a section of the crowd who were being racist.

[ludwig]

// Would that not also be punishing the 'well behaved' fans of Bulgaria. It was, after all, only a section of the crowd who were being racist. //

Yes it would, but they're not going to see the game anyway if it's behind closed doors. Playing behind closed doors just avoids the issue instead of tackling it.

Unfortunately, the majority of well behaved fans are always going to suffer as a result of the actions of the moronic minority - it's unavoidable. It's what happened when England had a football hooligan problem in the 70s & 80s and teams were banned from European competitions.

Hard on the genuine fans, but it's the idiots that were/are to blame, not the authorities taking action to address the problem.

[ichkeria]

I always think it’s best to target the actual problem at first rather than bans. Whether it’s stadium bans. Or other sorts of bans. In the case of Bulgaria at the moment it looks like the government is taking this seriously (at last) and before any ban of Bulgaria is considered we should at least see what they plan to do.
I wonder what AOG thinks?

[jourdain2]

I tend to agree with the 'closed door' suggestions.

[Buenchico]

For anyone who's missed the latest developments:
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11836457/england-and-bulgaria-charged-by-uefa-following-their-european-qualifier