It Ain't Over 'till The Fat Lady Sings

[New Judge]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/european-parliament-could-block-brexit-deal-over-boris-johnsons-treatment-of-eu-citizens-guy-verhofstadt-says/ar-BBY7a6e?ocid=spartanntp

[New Judge]

//...that anyone born before Brexit within the European union, has the right to reside in any European country (including the UK) as birthright.//

Please don't be ridiculous. That would mean around 460m people having an absolute right to reside here until they die. It also means that any children they have post-Brexit would have to be left behind and that would be a cue for cases to be put before the European Court of Human Rights under Article 8.

One of the facilities which Brexit will provide is for the UK to control who settles here and who doesn't. Leaving 460m people with the right to settle here hardly facilitates that control.

[Hymie]

//..Please don't be ridiculous. That would mean around 460m people having an absolute right to reside here until they die...//

Before Brexit that is exactly the situation we have now, and I would argue that since joining the EU in the early 1970s, the UK has done very well out of this arrangement.

I could very well see a legal argument that that right cannot be denied as a result of a State deciding to leave the EU (it would be like having an indefinite visa to live and work in any EU State).

[Old_Geezer]

Done very well ? How ?

[Hymie]

For the most part, all the EU Directives, most of which have the protection/well being of citizens as a primary objective – and not the interests of big business.

[waterboatman]

Throwing their teddy out the pram again!

[Old_Geezer]

The UK is capable of setting rules, regarding citizens, for itself, without having to obey EU demands. And one wonders which and whose citizens are benefitting; those of the UK, or those being allowed to stroll in and take advantage of the UK and it's achievements.

[10ClarionSt]

Throwing their teddy out OF the pram, WBM. What's Hitler and the Nazis got to do with anything?

[Hymie]

//..The UK is capable of setting rules, regarding citizens, for itself, without having to obey EU demands...//

Indeed, post Brexit (in the fullness of time) the UK government will be able to set rules regarding citizens for itself – removing those laws that provide protection/well being of citizens, and listening to what big business and the Daily Mail want.

[Zacs-Master]

Nice comment, Hymie.

[Old_Geezer]

Only if you vote in a representative to do that. The whole issue is about such control being with ourselves not dictated to by others. But I'd advise choosing your MP carefully.

[Zacs-Master]

I see some are under the impression that there will be a process of sifting out certain laws we’ve carried over in the withdrawal act. I’m yet to be convinced. And as Hymie hints, if that process does happen, will it be to our advantage.

[Hymie]

Unfortunately the parliamentary candidate I voted for did not win – therefore see my above post.

[Old_Geezer]

That's no excuse. You didn't convince your fellow constituents of your view. It's the public as a whole that chooses a government that the public as a whole deserves; not any particular individual claiming doom & gloom.

[Hymie]

Some years ago I had cause to seek assistance from my MP (not in my current constituency), and was basically advised to ‘Foxtrot Oscar’; after all, all he had to lose was my vote.

I’m sure if I had been able to advise him that over the previous year the company I owned had donated in excess of £100k to the Tory party, I would have received a slightly more conciliatory response.

[New Judge]

//Before Brexit that is exactly the situation we have now, and I would argue that since joining the EU in the early 1970s, the UK has done very well out of this arrangement.//

We didn’t do very well out of it by any means. It forced us to operate a discriminatory immigration policy and it also compelled us to accept for settlement people whom we may not have wanted to allow in. It certainly is the situation under the terms of our EU membership. It’s one of the (many) reasons why the majority of those who voted chose to leave.

//Unfortunately the parliamentary candidate I voted for did not win – therefore see my above post.//

That’s tough, Hymie, but it’s called democracy. It happened to me regularly in my younger days when I was unfortunate enough to live in Diane Abbott’s constituency. It would still be happening to me now had I chosen to remain living there. You don’t always get what you want and sometimes you never do.

[Hymie]

NJ - Stop selectively choosing your history to support an argument.

In terms of being forced to operate a discriminatory immigration policy by the EU; up until the early 1970s (probably around the time we joined the EU), we operated a discriminatory immigration policy allowing Commonwealth citizens the right to live and work here.

[dannyk13]

The fat lady sang yesterday when parliament voted to leave on 31st January.We are leaving with or without the blessing of the EU.

[New Judge]

//In terms of being forced to operate a discriminatory immigration policy by the EU; up until the early 1970s (probably around the time we joined the EU), we operated a discriminatory immigration policy allowing Commonwealth citizens the right to live and work here.//

Indeed we did. And the decision to do so was taken by the UK government. The decision to cease the arrangement was also taken by the UK government. It was not forced upon us by dint of membership of an organisation that has changed beyond recognition from its original purpose as a trading bloc. Not only has the EU become increasingly a political union, encroaching into areas of life far removed from that original purpose but it has also expanded geographically. It is now far removed from the half dozen similar nations that it was made up of when we joined (where migration between those countries was minimal) to become a union of very different nations with very different economic prospects where mass migration from poorer to wealthier was inevitable.

[Hymie]

When we signed up to the EU that was what we agreed to.

[Old_Geezer]

What we had were PMs giving away our nation's sovereignty without the express permission of the citizens. Now we are agreeing to reverse that, with permission. And during that period see little or nothing that can be described as having done well from giving it away for the duration.