Will Workers Ever Return To The Office In The Numbers We Had Before?

[youngmafbog]

Johnson is still banging on about this, even though few civil servants are returning.

What did he expect? Months of scaring people witless to control them is not going to go away, couple that with the millions to bring it 'covid safe' why would a company entertain this?

Then the workers, commuting to London is a nightmare - I did it for quite a few years. 2.5 hours each way on top of a full working day and you have no life, and the cost was astronomical. Now you wouldn't be able to mix, probably be eventually forced into a face nappy to get a cuppa or go to the bog, huge queue for the lifs (they were bad enough anyway at peak times) Who would want to go back?

[Gromit]

This is how fare behind the UK is on high speed rail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/graph/png/High-speed_rail_in_Europe/0/bd66f73748b6c824d8e4d32fa500ae0e3bd4b116.png

[MartinMillar]

Not that many civil servants are returning because of restrictions, as I have said before due to restrictions we are only allowed 14 persons out of 140 in the office

[satprof]

There are bound to be some jobs that could be 'off-shored', as it's called, but many companies were aware of these possibilities before Covid came on the scene. Many have indeed acted upon them, as did the outfit I worked for before I retired. This was a World Organization that's been rather in the news this year and lots of posts were shipped out to Kuala Lumpur a few years back to save money. This isn't such a bad idea for a body with offices in over 100 countries. The move, however, also showed up the communication problems of dealing with admin staff who are 5 or 6 hours ahead of Headquarters. Some staff in KL are expected to work late into the evening to provide a modicum of telephone support, but it's not ideal.
A different Agency decided to offshore to Budapest, which is on European time and is also much less expensive for senior staff to go to than is KL. I'm not saying that the current situation won't result in more off-shoring, but Eastern Europe might be the beneficiaries rather than Asia. (After all, lots of jobs have already moved in that direction and that looks like continuing for some time.)

[bednobs]

I prefer working in the office but (and heres the big but) the office that used to be with all my colleagues in. Now my office of 9 has to be 3 and it clearly won't be the same

[EdmundD]

The IT company (approx 4,000 headcount in UK) I worked for until retirement introduced outsourcing to India, WFH and disposal of office premises about 10 years ago.

For most UK employees the requirement was that they work at home for a minimum of 3 days a week. Apart from a select few, e.g. senior management, who had dedicated desks everyone was expected to use a booking system to hot desk. No storage space was provided so staff had to carry everything with them - laptop etc. You were allowed to claim 60p a day for heating and lighting for the days you were home based. Broadband was the employee's responsibility and as the target was a paperless environment there was no help with printers and paper.

The reaction to it was mixed - some simply never came into the office at all while others would use any excuse or opportunity to come into an office. I fell into the latter group because I did not have the space (and truth be told the willingness) to create an office at home. I opted to stay as retirement was only a few years away and I could usually find a way to circumvent the hot desk booking as I had access to more than one office.

Many people missed the social element - no more drinks after work, gong out for lunch or having an impromptu chat over a coffee. Others, particularly those with young families, felt it gave them a better quality of family life.

It was open to abuse - I remember that during the 2012 Olympics hardly anyone came in, ditto The Ashes, Wimbledon etc. Hardly anyone came into an office on Friday. People also used it to work whatever hours they pleased - "what does it matter when I work as long as the job gets done". I remember calling people during what I would consider working hours only to realise they were out doing supermarket shopping or somesuch. One justification I was given was that they were contactable on their mobile so no problem.

It did affect recruitment - graduates at interview would decline when they were told that they were expected to WFH. Understandable if you are just renting a room.

However, the virus is regrettably going to force a change in the working environment that many will find unwelcome but that is how life is going to be. A good number of people will find it's a case of job where you WFH or no job. I'm not sure about the outsourcing as in some countries the same restrictions will apply.

[Gromit]

Thanks EdmundD
A good post.

[mushroom25]

// Employees would hot desk. //

er no they won't - at least not in any company whose Covid-secure policy I've seen. deep cleaning desks ready for the next user in the too difficult box.

[New Judge]

An additional problem is this: I don’t know when companies are going to realise (or perhaps accept) that the arrangements that many of them have in place at the moment are inadequate at best. Every single organisation you try to contact has a warning “Because of the Coronavirus we are extremely busy at the moment…..” or words to that effect. Nowhere can you get an answer to a telephone call in a reasonable time. A month ago a spent five hours, spread over three days, trying to contact a travel company. If that sort of thing persists many companies will go skint simply because customers will not put up with such shoddy customer service. Companies that rely on their customers being able to contact them need to think long and hard about their business model when they simply say “All our workers will work from home henceforth.”

As I touched on earlier, most people simply don’t have the facilities to work properly at home. I’m lucky – I have a proper office, desk and office furniture (a proper office chair and a desk where I could if necessary work for prolonged periods). Lots of people – especially younger people – live in small premises and are working in conditions which are simply not suitable from a H&S point of view. Trades Unions should be thinking of the health and safety of these people instead of simply accepting that to see them working at home indefinitely is quite OK. It’s not. But it seems as long as they are kept “safe” from Covid that’s the only consideration. The chickens will come home to roost with this ridiculous and ill-thought-out strategy I would say in 12-18 months. More people are dying from summer 'flu (about five times as many, actually) than are dying from Covid and it's about time people got a grip.

[mushroom25]

// We need new high speed, city to city electric rail infrastructure. //

since Failing Grayling discovered that hybrid trains meant an end to all this nonsense of spending millions on railway electrification, this is the only electric transport infrastructure the government is currently considering
https://www.eta.co.uk/2017/09/15/electric-hgvs-with-overhead-power-lines-get-go-ahead/

this - and the electric driverless car - will kill the railways.

[gulliver1]

Should the wording on this headline be changed, from "Workers" to Office Staff.

[fiction-factory]

Office staff are workers so the thread title is clear to me. I doubt anyone thinks the OP is referring to refuse collectors, bricklayers or tractor drivers etc, gulliver

[teacake44]

Well I must agree with NJs post, there's some very under handed things going on, the covid excuse is being used to ignore customers completely.

[Gromit]

mushroom25

Germany is trialing eHGVs but I am doubtful it will replace trains.
Hybrid lorries that revert to diesel when the batteries run out kind of defeats the object. Europe is commItted to banning diesel by 2030 (UK 2035).
Electric trucks will come but they will be battery only. Tesla already have a truck in development.

https://www.tesla.com/semi

Also, building hybrid truckways will have the same nimby response, by those who do not want to see their lovely little wood flattened.

[jno]

the company I used to work for expanded its operations worldwide and could have based all the office work round the clock in the UK but decided instead to have shifts of 8 hours or so each in London, New York and Tokyo. That was 20 years or so ago.

Yet they were wary of letting people work from home; they liked to keep an eye on what they were up to - this despite the fact that they could check remotely on what company work everyone was doing and when. It was just control freakery, and now they've had to allow home working, they may decide that it's better than spending money on office space.

[mushroom25]

// building hybrid truckways will have the same nimby response, //

unlikely. the plan is to install catenary on existing roads.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/27/ehighways-could-slash-uk-road-freight-emissions-says-study

[Gromit]

Mushroom
// System of overhead cables and adapted lorries could pay for itself within 15 years //

Just in time for the UK’s diesel ban in 2035.

[Gromit]

Strangely, the Guardian report fails to mention these are still diesel engine trucks and the 2030 ban on diesel.
// Germany’s pilot of the technology is currently operational on a six-mile stretch of autobahn near Frankfurt and is set to run until 2022.
At the end of the electrified segment of road the truck can continue to draw from its batteries, switching to its diesel engine when they’re fully depleted. //

[mushroom25]

// Strangely, the Guardian report fails to mention these are still diesel engine trucks and the 2030 ban on diesel. //

governments, and the haulage industry, are relying on huge strides in battery technology in the meantime. at present, traction batteries necessary to power trucks are too heavy and use up too much of the potential payload.

[jourdain2]

I can't see office working returning in the form it used to have. Staggered days possibly.

Re:HS2 totally unnecessary now i.m.o., gromit. Bearing in mind demise of diesel etc. the money would be far, far better spent in revitalising branch lines to deliver goods and people close to their destinations. Any urgent business can be conducted by Zoom - or existing (very slightly slower) rail connections .

[gulliver1]

17.38 ,Sorry , You must have been an office worker many, many years ago . I did not mean any offence,