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We're These Women Out Of Order
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Sunk
Why were they idiots?
They could have been idling around a supermarket with two or three hundred other essential shoppers.
Instead they went for a walk and ended up hundreds of pounds poorer.
Because they went for a drive in order to go for a walk.
Read the post with the capitals I posted earlier and it might make sense, give it a go.
Why were they idiots?
They could have been idling around a supermarket with two or three hundred other essential shoppers.
Instead they went for a walk and ended up hundreds of pounds poorer.
Because they went for a drive in order to go for a walk.
Read the post with the capitals I posted earlier and it might make sense, give it a go.
//The £400 fines should be immediately refunded,//
I believe they have not been paid. The two ladies are declining the kind offer of a fixed penalty and are instead having the matter heard in the Magistrates’ Court.
//Agree that the legal position needs clarifying- needs to be in law perhaps with a figure for acceptable journey length- or police should be told just to turn people back//
Exactly, Bobbin and that is my whole point. We do not (yet) live in a nation where the police make up the rules as they see fit. The “guidance” suggests what you should or should not do and some – though not all – of it makes sense. It goes further than the law but police are using the guidance to qualify the legislation. As a result they are imposing fixed penalties on people or are compelling them to refrain from doing something that the law permits. I don’t like that one bit.
To understand why, imagine this: the speed limit is 70mph. The Highway Code gives drivers advice as well as instructions (which are backed up by legislation). See the two paragraphs below:
124. You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle
(Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6)
125. The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions.
Para 124 explains the law; para 125 is the accompanying guidance.
So, the police clock you at 69mph. They consider it was not safe for you to drive at that speed given the conditions so they offer you a Fixed Penalty (£100 and 3 penalty points) for speeding. Would you be happy with that?
You mustn’t misunderstand me here. I’m not suggesting Covid doesn’t exist or any of that nonsense. I’m not suggesting it is not dangerous and that it’s not claiming many lives. But the police are exceeding their powers based on what they think the law says or what their superiors have told them it means. Just because we’re in the middle of a serious crisis there is no reason for the country to submit to Marshal law.
I believe they have not been paid. The two ladies are declining the kind offer of a fixed penalty and are instead having the matter heard in the Magistrates’ Court.
//Agree that the legal position needs clarifying- needs to be in law perhaps with a figure for acceptable journey length- or police should be told just to turn people back//
Exactly, Bobbin and that is my whole point. We do not (yet) live in a nation where the police make up the rules as they see fit. The “guidance” suggests what you should or should not do and some – though not all – of it makes sense. It goes further than the law but police are using the guidance to qualify the legislation. As a result they are imposing fixed penalties on people or are compelling them to refrain from doing something that the law permits. I don’t like that one bit.
To understand why, imagine this: the speed limit is 70mph. The Highway Code gives drivers advice as well as instructions (which are backed up by legislation). See the two paragraphs below:
124. You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle
(Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6)
125. The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions.
Para 124 explains the law; para 125 is the accompanying guidance.
So, the police clock you at 69mph. They consider it was not safe for you to drive at that speed given the conditions so they offer you a Fixed Penalty (£100 and 3 penalty points) for speeding. Would you be happy with that?
You mustn’t misunderstand me here. I’m not suggesting Covid doesn’t exist or any of that nonsense. I’m not suggesting it is not dangerous and that it’s not claiming many lives. But the police are exceeding their powers based on what they think the law says or what their superiors have told them it means. Just because we’re in the middle of a serious crisis there is no reason for the country to submit to Marshal law.
https:/
//The guidance said: "The Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs [fixed penalty notices] for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise."
The NPCC added that rather than issue fines for people who travel out of their local area "but are not breaching regulations, officers will encourage people to follow the guidance".//
I rest my case and will sleep easy.
//The guidance said: "The Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs [fixed penalty notices] for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise."
The NPCC added that rather than issue fines for people who travel out of their local area "but are not breaching regulations, officers will encourage people to follow the guidance".//
I rest my case and will sleep easy.
//With the silly behaviours and bending of rules we’re seeing there clearly is.//
Well the National Police Chiefs' Council believes that if there was any rule bending going on, it was on the part of the Derbyshire Country Constabulary, as the BBC report clearly illustrates. Their ACC has accepted that and his officers will no longer issue fixed penalties where no law has been broken. If you believe Marshal Law is warranted I suggest you live elsewhere because you won't find too many people (who know what it means) sharing your beliefs.
Well the National Police Chiefs' Council believes that if there was any rule bending going on, it was on the part of the Derbyshire Country Constabulary, as the BBC report clearly illustrates. Their ACC has accepted that and his officers will no longer issue fixed penalties where no law has been broken. If you believe Marshal Law is warranted I suggest you live elsewhere because you won't find too many people (who know what it means) sharing your beliefs.
Stickybottle //With the silly behaviours and bending of rules we’re seeing there clearly is. As someone else said the nhs staff must be fuming.//
The problem is, that with various vague changing rules/ laws / guidelines... everyone has basically been left to do their own risk assessments and do what they feel safe. (Atheist, I believe I didn't risk a single life today... but may have done if I hadn't driven...)
Also, SB, the NHS staff i have worked with are worried, but not fuming. That is never going to be the normal attitude of someone in medical care. This is a virus nobody wanted, and if your arbitrary decisions on what's right, were right, why aren't they laws?
The problem is, that with various vague changing rules/ laws / guidelines... everyone has basically been left to do their own risk assessments and do what they feel safe. (Atheist, I believe I didn't risk a single life today... but may have done if I hadn't driven...)
Also, SB, the NHS staff i have worked with are worried, but not fuming. That is never going to be the normal attitude of someone in medical care. This is a virus nobody wanted, and if your arbitrary decisions on what's right, were right, why aren't they laws?
Are you sure they’re not fuming pixie?
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Pixie
I haven't seen anyone on the thread suggesting people should "do as they please". But any law needs to be exceptionally clear.
So tell me what is normal about this current situation? People staying in and doing as they’re told will become the new normal, wearing masks for the next 12 months will become normal but the normal you refer to disappeared last March and may never return again.
As for the rest I’ve no idea why people feel the need to quibble over fine detail and semantics when the government are telling people to stay home unless absolutely necessary. Why do people feel the need to challenge the new normal when the death toll reaches new records daily. Madness.
The woman’s brother who is a doctor must be so proud of his sister and her actions.
I haven't seen anyone on the thread suggesting people should "do as they please". But any law needs to be exceptionally clear.
So tell me what is normal about this current situation? People staying in and doing as they’re told will become the new normal, wearing masks for the next 12 months will become normal but the normal you refer to disappeared last March and may never return again.
As for the rest I’ve no idea why people feel the need to quibble over fine detail and semantics when the government are telling people to stay home unless absolutely necessary. Why do people feel the need to challenge the new normal when the death toll reaches new records daily. Madness.
The woman’s brother who is a doctor must be so proud of his sister and her actions.
Derbyshire Police have now found out the rules and realise that they have not been applying them properly.
// The force said all fixed penalty notices will be reviewed after it received clarification about the coronavirus regulations from the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) which informed them that “Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs (fixed penalty notices) for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise”. //
https:/
// The force said all fixed penalty notices will be reviewed after it received clarification about the coronavirus regulations from the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) which informed them that “Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs (fixed penalty notices) for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise”. //
https:/
// I’ve no idea why people feel the need to quibble over fine detail and semantics when the government are telling people to stay home unless absolutely necessary. //
You are either ignorant or deliberately misrepresenting the Government’s rules. The guidance says people can exercise outdoors. They want people to be healthy.
The clarification shows you are wrong, Derbyshire Police are wrong, and the women were right and lawful.
No one is making light of 80,000 deaths. Going for a walk is not disrespectful of the dead.
As for Doctors fuming, highly unlikely. For years they have been telling us to take more exercise. I expect this woman's Doctor brother is very pleased with his sister, especially now she has been exonerated.
You are either ignorant or deliberately misrepresenting the Government’s rules. The guidance says people can exercise outdoors. They want people to be healthy.
The clarification shows you are wrong, Derbyshire Police are wrong, and the women were right and lawful.
No one is making light of 80,000 deaths. Going for a walk is not disrespectful of the dead.
As for Doctors fuming, highly unlikely. For years they have been telling us to take more exercise. I expect this woman's Doctor brother is very pleased with his sister, especially now she has been exonerated.
Sunk
As for Doctors fuming, highly unlikely. For years they have been telling us to take more exercise. I expect this woman's Doctor brother is very pleased
Pleased his sister drove five miles when the government are telling people to stay at home and exercise locally, you’re kidding yourself.
It’s stupid and will only encourage others to do the same in spite of all the pleas to stay home.
As someone else said earlier why couldn’t they walk the five miles, driving that far is not necessary in a lockdown.
As for Doctors fuming, highly unlikely. For years they have been telling us to take more exercise. I expect this woman's Doctor brother is very pleased
Pleased his sister drove five miles when the government are telling people to stay at home and exercise locally, you’re kidding yourself.
It’s stupid and will only encourage others to do the same in spite of all the pleas to stay home.
As someone else said earlier why couldn’t they walk the five miles, driving that far is not necessary in a lockdown.
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