Remove The Whip Boris.........

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-michael-gove-says-tory-mp-out-of-order-to-tell-anti-vaxxers-to-persist-against-restrictions-12201020
Another MAABOF eejit.

[Spicerack]

Could you run that by me in intelligible English, corby?
I honestly haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

[Paigntonian]

If he was a member of the Cabinet it would be entirely right for the PM to take appropriate action. Silly backbencher says stupid thing then it's a matter for his constituents and local association. This is a manufactured yarn like the SNP and Boris's visit to the frozen wastelands of the north.

[naomi24]

Jim, I don’t ‘pretend’ anything - you’ve made that up - and neither do I misunderstand statistics. I simply refuse to accept them without question - as you should have done on several occasions. This is one scientist who does have the wherewithal to question them - and good for him. Now stop. You are not the fount of all knowledge.

TCL. I don’t have a problem.

[THECORBYLOON]

Do you want it in words of one letter?

[jim360]

In point of fact, this scientist doesn't question the statistics, and absolutely supports vaccines. Further, I am not claiming to be the fount of all knowledge. I'm reporting what *is*, objectively, the overwhelming body of medical evidence and consensus. Anybody can say what I am saying, if they did their research properly, rather than if they looked up fringe sources and then misinterpret them.

[jim360]

I also hope you understand that to question statistics means to go a little beyond merely "what if they are wrong?" Wrong how? Why? What evidence or experiment would you seek to conduct yourself, and how would you analyse that data?

There is no skill in merely asking "what if the scientific consensus is wrong?" without also seeking to quantify or justify that.

[naomi24]

Jim, take a breath.

[jim360]

No. Scientific illiteracy deserves to be called out for what it is.

[naomi24]

Don't be rude, Jim. I am not by any means 'scientifically illiterate'. Get over yourself.

[Spicerack]

Calm down, jim. You're always stamping your little feet if anybody has the temerity to not kowtow before you.
It is not normal behaviour.

[jim360]

And yet, here you are, attempting to question the scientific consensus based on a report you evidently don't understand because its proponent also doesn't question that consensus in any meaningful way. Same as your misunderstanding of it on almost all other major current issues, be it in Climate Science, or in medical science, or in physics, etc etc. People who are scientifically literate don't take dowsing seriously, don't take ancient alien theories seriously; they don't take pseudoscience seriously.

[jim360]

Spicerack, too, misunderstands me. I'm personally invested in this, of course, I can't pretend otherwise, but there is a wider principle here that goes far beyond me; it's the issue of giving false equivalence to views that deserve little to no respect. It's not about kowtowing to *me*, or even about kowtowing to scientific consensus -- it's about understanding *why* that is the current consensus. Evidently, Naomi, and, far more importantly, Desmond Swayne, does not, and his comments deserve to be repudiated because of that. Of course he should apologise, and of course he should recognise that he was wholly wrong then and now.

[dannyk13]

Jim, what has all this to do with withdrawing the whip?

[jim360]

I got sidetracked, danny.

[naomi24]

Jim, You're misrepresenting me - yet again - but it's your way. Now do us all a favour and put a sock in it.

[Spicerack]

Nobody asked you to give equivalence or respect to the views of Swayne or the thousands of scientists who hold differing views to the ones you and your, possibly imagined, consensus hold.
You take these differences as some kind of personal slur. Why? You are not now and never will be the final word in scientific advancement.

[ToraToraTora]

paigntonian: " Silly backbencher says stupid thing then it's a matter for his constituents and local association." - on most things I'd agree but this is undermining national efforts in a national crisis. This sort of dipstickery is picked up by the thicker members of the public as gospel and creates problems in an already stretched society.

[Peter Pedant]

remove the whip Boris
and stop beating your wife !

hur hur hur - - - well it is better than discussing the real point ....

1500 today - a very flustered MP - saying that was then and this is now. Great
and then - - and what I said was absolutely tip-top

oh dear - dung! - scores zero.....deselect. Trouble with an MP thinking independently is that it turns into some ghastly AB brexit fred, only all over the media!

[Peter Pedant]

// Silly backbencher says stupid thing //

well that is nothing - have you read any of the anti-vaxxer threads on AB? Madness masquerading as modern logic.

[Peter Pedant]

// Jim, You're misrepresenting me - yet again - but it's your way. //
no I dont think he is, you know

I think Jim is saying that what it says on Naomi's tin may damage your health - and I think he is right - come on Naomi., tell us- have you and or your family had the vaccine ?

(I have)