The Eu 'Demands'

[Paigntonian]

Astrazeneca diverts supplies from Britain to the EU while the Germans aren't happy with the vaccine. Thank God we're rid of the farce.

[Sunk]

UK ‘may’ send some vaccine. Nothing confirmed.

Apparently the AZ vaccine wasn’t tested on many old people, possibly because AZ cocked up their trial. Only 8% elderly people were trialed. If the evidence isn’t there, or not in sufficient quantity to make a definitive decision then it shouldn’t be approved. But in these very serious times, even a low efficacy result would be worth a try.

[Sunk]

The UK approved the AZ vaccine 4 weeks ago. They fast tracked it, and I would be surprised, or bothered if corners were cut.

I hope it was a good call to rush the vaccine out.
But imagine if the EU assessment is right. We have spent 4 weeks vaccinating old people. What if that was precisely the wrong group, and we have wasted a month?
These are scientists and medics not biased politicians. They have no reason to reject the AZ vaccine out of any nationalism or patriotism.

[ichkeria]

It doesn't seem an unreasonable request to me: especially as it appears the UK has far more supplies than it needs.
But it's in any case a matter between the Germans and the company.
Maybe their contract specifies that the supplies have to come from their European factories, but I'd be surprised.

It is in the interests of all countries, particularly in Europe, to spread the vaccine round a bit, although that seems a faint hope.

[Sunk]

* I wouldn’t be surprised

[jno]

if AstraZeneca have been selling things they haven't got, someone will miss out; but I don't see why it shouldn't be all their customers equally. But it will depend on the terms of their contracts, as sunny dave outlined in another thread.

The Germans have been very careful to say there's nothing wrong with the AZ vaccine but there's not enough data on over-65s to recommend its use; the idea seems to be simply that older people can have the Pfizer vaccine while younger ones get the AZ one, until more results are in.

This all seems quite reasonable to me.

[Togo]

Bet you a pound to a pinch of watsit that if the Astra/Zenica vaccine had been duff and the French cockup had been successful that they would be telling us to do one if we were demanding that they send us their quota. Had we not confirmed orders, and guaranteed funding back in May, before the trials had even been done, and enabled the gamble to start production early and in earnest, there wouldn't even be an Astra/Zeneca vaccine. The EUSSR still hasn't given it the green light and wants to commandeer our supply anyway. What are they gonna do? Pour it down the bog?

[woofgang]

I just heard about this on the beeb. Apparently the problem with the data according to the beeb was that not many of the older volunteer cohort were exposed to the virus in their daily lives, which makes sense, so whereas in the younger cohort, there was more evidence that their vaccination had met and overcome the virus, there was less of that evidence in the old'uns. therefore the evidence they had to use was from the reaction to the vaccination and not from the vaccinated meeting the virus.

[jno]

the UK provided AZ with £84m funding; the EU provided €336m. The EU hasn't been slow in approving the vaccine.

[Sunk]

// The EU hasn't been slow in approving the vaccine. //

The EU should approve the O/AZ vaccine within days. That will be a record for any drug approved in the EU.
It wasn’t as quick as the UK approval. We can only speculate for the 4 week difference.

[Togo]

//Bet you a pound to a pinch of watsit that if the Astra/Zenica vaccine had been duff and the French cockup had been successful that they would be telling us to do one if we were demanding that they send us their quota.//

No answers then from the EUSSR apologists? What would they have done if our vaccine was cr@p and the French one had been safe and worked?

[New Judge]

Ask yourself this: if production of the AZ vaccine was in trouble in the UK but that in Europe was hunky-dory, do you think the EU would agree to a UK "demand" that EU produced vaccine should be diverted to the UK?

Clue: Two letters, beginning with "N" and ending with "O".

No need to delve into the niceties.

[New Judge]

And even before this spat, the EU was threatening to refuse permission for Pfizer vaccine, produced in Belgium, to be exported to the UK. There was no reason for this other than to emphasise that they can. There was some German geezer quoted in the Telegraph today saying that "the UK will suffer" if it does not submit to the EU's demands. I expected a suffix: "For you Tommy, ze var is over!".
Arrogant Bar Steward.

I notice that, despite the EU's insistence that it would buy vaccine collectively on behalf of the 27 nations, Germany has made its own arrangements. So much for EU solidarity:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/german-grab-threatens-eu-covid-vaccine-scheme-qwj3g3m6r

[Zacs-Master]

As a remainer, can I just say.......
Thank god we’re out.


There, I said it ;-)

[New Judge]

I'll get you back on to proper light bulbs soon, Zacs!! :-)

[Zacs-Master]

My eyes, my eyes!

[royfromaus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442


Where is this all going to end?

[sunny-dave]

Jesus wept - how many more times is this transparently bogus claim going to be given AB airtime.

OK - once more for the hard of thinking :

The UK appears to be about to get more of Astra's vaccine over the next few weeks than an equitable spread across the various contracts would indicate - most of Astra's shortfall is being taken from the EU contract with the UK getting pretty much what it has ordered.

You'd have to be quite naive not to assume that the UK has indulged in some arm-twisting to ensure that outcome.

From a reputable EU broadcaster - note especially the last two paragraphs :

"The European Commission hopes to produce a mechanism by the end of this week which would register all Covid-19 vaccines manufactured in Europe and exported to non-EU countries.

This follows the escalating row between the EU and AstraZeneca over a shortfall of up to 60% in the amount due to be delivered to European capitals in the first quarter, once the vaccine is authorised, as expected, on Friday.

Although the commission has not spelled it out, the suspicion among officials is that none of AstraZeneca's other customers, notably the UK, suffered any big drop in supply.

The commission said the transparency mechanism is not about blocking exports of vaccines, but about knowing who is getting what"

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

[New Judge]

//You'd have to be quite naive not to assume that the UK has indulged in some arm-twisting to ensure that outcome.//

Then I'm naive then.

The fact is, we ordered ours (and paid for it) three months before the EU got its backside into gear. If I place an order with a supplier three months before anybody else I expect my order to be fulfilled first. I don't expect part of my order to be diverted to somebody who ordered three months after me.

//The commission said the transparency mechanism is not about blocking exports of vaccines, but about knowing who is getting what"//

"Who is getting what" is nothing to do with the EU. If it believes its contract has been broken it can pursue that through the usual legal channels. It expects that, so that its (later) order can be fulfilled an earlier order must be jeopardised. I heard reported a Euromaniac say a few days ago that he does not understand the logic of "first come first served." Well he should venture out from behind his blue flag more because that's how most of the commercial world works.

It's strange that the EU now considers that a hard border in Ireland is now perfectly acceptable when, just few months ago, the idea was so unthinkable that it jeopardised Brexit.

We are ell shot of this bunch of chiselling, hypocritical bar stewards.