Covid Briefings- Boris Etc

[bobbinwales]

Todays Covid briefing was mainly on schools reopening and an update on covid figures and vaccinnes . But it was again spoiled for me by non Covid related questions from the press- today two asked about Megan Markel and the racism claims, one about nurses pay proposal (ok looseley linked) and one about Brexit trade deals
Why on earth dos'nt Borris (or Hancock or whoever) just say "this isnt the place, next journalist please"

[douglas9401]

Possibly a lack of backbone.

[bobbinwales]

Maybe. Certainly trying to hard to be liked or look open. Blair or Thatcher would of told them to stick to the point

[KARL]

What are Boris and other politicians doing there at all ? These briefings should be about Covid and the way it is being tackled - held by non-politicians (epidemiologists, health experts/mangers and public authorities such as police. etc.) delivering facts, explaining regulations, etc. Such people should mainly dictate policy, the politicians taking a back seat and authorising enactment of recommendations made by non-political experts/advisors. The politicians are largely out of their depth and should take their politicking elsewhere when the time and place are right.

[jno]

just posting this to remove the previous poster's name from Latest Posts...

[woofgang]

KARL all along the advisors have said clearly that they don't do policy, that policy is a matter for government and I think that is right. The are experts in their fields but you can't expect a medic or scientist to know about economy.

I think Bojo nailed it today. If he started laying the law down then the meejer will start talking about being muzzled and so on. As it is, he brushes the irrelevance aside and shuts it down without the need to get snotty. I think his response today was much better than Starmer's

[KARL]

How to handle the approach to Covid as a pandemic is not the politicians' realm but if they want to overrule those who know how to do things then that should be open and clear - it's called transparency. The latter should be at the front and the former in the background and only if the former contradict the latter should the former ever have a say (standing up and saying so, as a clear second declaration) - then take the flack, rightly, when Covid kills untold numbers. As it is, the UK (as usual) is swimming in opacity with everyone trying to minimise/dodge responsibility for things going badly wrong (even denying that it has - "others have problems too", "we have done better than others", "we are successful") nobody really knowing how/why it has, and doing their best to throw doubt on absolutely everything that might reveal some solid facts to go on. The contrast to the way things are done elsewhere is quite striking - but, as always, the UK (in the UK) is World Beating, World's best, at the Forefront, etc., etc., never mind factual comparisons available for those who are interested enough to look for them (usually abroad).

[KARL]

Perhaps Douglas is right - lack of backbone across the board.

[brainiac]

Karl - the UK is[i world-beating when it comes to the numbers who have had the first dose of the vaccine. Do you not watch the news, know that the figure is over 22 million? Have you had your jab? Be grateful they - the politicians [i]and] the scientists - are getting this right.

[woofgang]

KARL"How to handle the approach to Covid as a pandemic is not the politicians'"

yes it absolutely is. The very best managers don't need to know the minute detail of all the aspects of what they manage. They need the very best specialist advisors, the ability to grasp essential facts quickly and the ability to see the total picture...to weigh safety against economics against how far people can be pushed, to weigh solutions and outcomes.

[ichkeria]

I totally disagree.
Scientists advise.
Politicians do policy based in their advice and other factors.
That is the way it is and that is right.

[ichkeria]

I meant I disagreed with Karl :-)

[bobbinwales]

Yes boris handled the megan questions well and the downing street refurb. Should of done the same with Brexit. But they should make it clear its covid only.
Have to say karl has puzzled me. The politicians would be slated if they didnt answer questions from press and public and give these updates on such an important topic and be transparant.
May of been better IMHO tho to have set up a cross party team to decide policy and face the press/ public

[woofgang]

no I don't think so. The party in power is the party in power. The opposition have a job in this type of government to hold the governing party to account and to give a voice to alternative views. This would be lost with a cross party system and take a voice away from the public.

[bobbinwales]

Maybe woofgang. A just feel a lot of people have tried to make political points and its held us back at times , for example those who hate Boris and all he stands for may not trust 'his' vaccinnes or they believe any of he's figures he reads out or they willpick holes in any rules or guidance to score political points which as happened.

Overall tho I think the briefings idea as been good with scientists/medics and a politicians/goverment/Covid management team spokesman but the press (Beth Rigby etc) have come out badly by asking non relavant questions and IMO silly questions and the politicians has been to soft and eager to please/look transparant by not rejecting such questions . Nicola wouldnt stand for it

[KARL]

One approach is/was that given that there was always going to be a limited/finite supply of vaccine everyone should share it equally. Another approach was to apply the law of the jungle and (selfishly) grab all you can get your hands on, stuff others. Of course the latter approach could always be expected to appeal to those who are inexorably heading for the plug'ole - anything to stop the rot. But I am uncomfortable all the same with the bullying greed and I cannot support pride in having succeeded in the grab.

When I see a country conquering the first and second waves of Covid in 8 weeks each (and a smaller third one in between in a shorter time) by leaving scientists almost entirely in charge, I form the opinion that this is the better way rather than politicians claiming to follow the science and then slinking away and letting science take the blame dished out by the media and public. The scientists are partly to blame, by acquiescing in being used for point scoring rather than speaking their minds (if they could get the coverage). A country which quickly got the better of the waves, has had a run a couple of months or more with negligible daily cases to these days having zero cases days on end, is clearly doing things better (but by some people's definition way behind) - but, crucially, it is doing nothing that the UK with far greater resources can and should be able to do (with the better results that come from it).

To me, for the UK, the comparison will remain nothing to be proud of (certainly not for chest beating) as is the horrendous death toll. Others can close their eyes to reality, declare themselves the best, clap and boast of having a plaster to stem the hemorrhage, and that is I suppose their right, but I won't support that.

I was offered a vaccine (don't know which) but didn't go because I intend to follow the manufacturers' original advice (not the political imperative) and get the second injection within time.

[bobbinwales]

//I was offered a vaccine (don't know which) but didn't go because I intend to follow the manufacturers' original advice (not the political imperative) and get the second injection within time.//

Sounds nonsense to me particularly in view of the scientific consencus now and the common sense view that an early first dose must be better than delaying the first dose for possibly years but what do I know eh. Hope they dont run out

[KARL]

The point about politicians opening themselves for criticism if not at the microphone to answer questions about how to handle a pandemic may be valid. It all comes down to culture, I suppose. Is the public so simple as to look to politicians regarding what to do to prevent each and every one of us from succumbing to an illness ? The media, for their own reasons, want to excite people into such a state (the more uncertainty, fear, panic and indignation the more people will listen to anything at all) but are people in sufficiently large numbers falling for that ?

Bobbinwales has a point - yes, it seems the UK population (which it is seriously being suggested, mainly/only in the UK, has bodies which are more likely to die from Covid than foreign ones - I find that an extraordinary slur) is that simple. When I think about it, the media in the country I was describing are supportive of the way Covid has been handled there. That's where we have almost certainly arrived at the essence: There everyone works better together against a challenge, the UK is conspicuously different in that respect. We can then contemplate as to what/who is the cause of that and make our choice as to what our preference is, as I have made mine.

[woofgang]

bobbin, no Boris and Nicola have different approaches. The way I read Boris is that he doesn't feel the need to get aggressive because he can handle them with one hand tied. Its like me and my dog. I don't get agressive with him because there's no need. I am in charge, he knows I am in charge. If he asks for a biscuit and can't have what he wants, I don't yell at him, I say "no I am not giving you a biscuit"

[woofgang]

KARL, what will you do if there is never a regime where the second vaccine is offered "within time"?