Fat Tax. Good Or Bad?

[youngmafbog]

I am in two minds about this. On the one hand it cannot be denied there is a big problem and one that could easily break the NHS as we know it. On the other hand I dislike this knee jerk reaction to tax everything, particularly from a so called Tory Government (Although we all know Mr & Mrs Johnson are really Greens).

I wonder if Bunter will just stick his Mars Bars on the expenses, and I wonder if the taxes will apply to the Commons Bar?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9789215/Boris-Johnsons-food-tsar-urges-UK-introduce-worlds-tax-sugary-salty-food.html

[Untitled]

Nobody eats cakes for nourishment naomi, they are an invention purely for pleasure… surely you don’t think everyone should just eat for basic sustenance?

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // but what I'm saying is they know they're doing it. They're not ignorant. they just like it. //

And what I'm saying is, your stance goes entirely against human nature.

We are hard-wired to think the best of ourselves, and to slide around actually seeing things that are bad either for us or about us.

Yes there is a section of society that does have an objective look at itself, recognises its faults, and addresses them, but I reckon it's well below one percent!

[Untitled]

“ I know someone who cooks without fat or salt, always lean meat or fish and steamed vegetables or plain salad... and then follows it up with a selection of cakey desserts served with cream - because 'you've got to have your treats'. ”

I think your friend sounds like a very good host!

[rowanwitch]

Faxing cigarette and alcohol doesn't stop addicts buying them, they just buy cheaper or give up something else, the problem with food is you can't choose abstinence, so it is always going to be a matter of management. There are parallelshoweverin that some foods seem to trigger similar responses, so there can be an element of addiction. There are also hormone effects (the leptin/ghrelin) link) and there are strong links to food being used as a reward/comforter/ or substitute for other sexual pleasures in many cases conditioned from childhood. . It's just not black a nd white if it was it would be possible to structure a system that helped everyone.
There would be value in a) stopping the production of sweets and other less healthy foodstuffs marketed directly at children. Stopping the birthday parties at McDonald's type of event, no rewarding children with happy meal toys etc. Stop using cartoons in advertising and product design.

I think it is worth writing off the generation already conditioned except where they are genuinely seeking help but starting from a point where a new generation doesn't have the exposure or access.

[Peter Pedant]

// naomi - // There's nothing she doesn't know about healthy eating but she's been on a diet for about 40 years - and she's still fat. ////

oh come on you two
she clearly doesnt know about Dr Johnson:

if a man is fat - he eats too much ( that would be 1750 ish)

oh diet - bingers - you know that doing that is worse than being fat? You lose more muscle mass during the cycle than if you did nothing. You didnt? You do now

[ummmm]

Andy - My sister is obese and she's far from poor. She's a rubbish cook, portions are too big and eats lots of takeaways.

My maternal family are massive eaters but they are all slim except my sister and her daughter. It's because they are all active.

I'm not very active at the moment due to illness and haven't put on a pound.

I eat what I want when I want. It's just, I think, I'm not fan of greasy food. I love fruit, veg and salad.

[naomi24]

Untitled, //Nobody eats cakes for nourishment//

I agreed with you the first time you said that.

AH, My friend is a very busy lady. She’s still fat though - and that’s because she insists on having her ‘treats’.

Another thing, I think it’s really sad to see children overweight. Poor kids.

[andy-hughes]

// if a man is fat - he eats too much ( that would be 1750 ish) //

An over-simplification from less-enlightened times.

The simple unavoidable fact is, if you ingest more in food than you work off in exercise, you will gain weight.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // AH, My friend is a very busy lady. She’s still fat though - and that’s because she insists on having her ‘treats’. //

Being 'busy' is not the same as exercising - I can only repeat, if she exercised, she would lose weight.

[naomi24]

AH, you don't know her - and you're wrong.

[andy-hughes]

ummm - // Andy - My sister is obese and she's far from poor. She's a rubbish cook, portions are too big and eats lots of takeaways. //

You can always find individual examples to buck any broad-based trend - it does not alter the facts I have pointed out.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // AH, you don't know her - and you're wrong. //

Obviously I don't know her - and if i am wrong it is only because you have omitted to provide information to confirm that.

If your friend exercises regularly, then yes I am wrong - but until you confirm that, I am happy to go with the information you have offered, and base my views on that.

[naomi24]

AH, what you've pointed out aren't facts. Too much of the wrong food equates to too much weight - whether people exercise or not. That's why you'll see lots of fat people puffing away in gyms.

[davebro]

My Dad always said we eat too much - and that was in the 50s when most people were as thin as rakes!

I think the best thing to do is eat the things you like but cut down the portion sizes. My pal's dog was getting a bit chunky so he began feeding her 3/4 of what she had been having & she lost weight. It's easy to diet when someone else controls the food supply!

[Untitled]

Unfortunately diet is far more important than exercise for losing weight andy… exercise is good for other reasons (e.g. keeping the heart healthy) and it certainly helps but diet is the main thing:

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/3/16845438/exercise-weight-loss-myth-burn-calories

It is possible to indulge in food without getting fat though… if done moderately (and compensated for with some exercise)… so I think it is wrong to tax people on little sources of pleasure.

[barry1010]

The most obese person I know is a very clever barrister and she is very well educated about food and nutrition but she is unable to change her very poor food choices.
A tax on food won't change her and I doubt it will change peoples habits.
I have been morbidly obese and became type 2 diabetic directly because of my lifestyle and choices. With hindsight, I am not convinced that the food I chose to eat nor the amount I ate was to blame but my total inactivity.

Back in the 60s and 70s a lot of people had very poor diets. Sugary pop delivered to the door courtesy of Corona; everything fried usually in lard; cakes and pastry made with lard - puddings every day; cheap and nasty white bread with lots of butter or marge; kids given endless sweets (my dentist gave me sweets for being good).
I had school dinners and always had a pudding with custard. Went home to a cooked dinner followed by pudding and custard.

My parents were very generous with sweets and treats because they were deprived of such things during rationing - they wanted us to have what they missed. I've heard many people say the same sort of thing.

The difference is back then nearly everything took much more physical effort. Walked to school and back, walked or cycled everywhere. Mowing the lawn was harder with push along mowers; vacuum cleaners were heavier; doing the laundry was an all day job and even the irons were heavier with no steam. Driving a car was harder with no power steering. Prams were big and heavy.
A lot of jobs were hard manual labour.
Many people get through their day walking no further than to the car and doing nothing more physical than loading the dishwasher. That, I think, is the real cause of obesity and type 2 diabetes

[Sqad]

Peter Pedant is correct.....if you're fat, then you are eating too much and the question is why am I eating too much andthat is why I like the posts of rowanwitch.

Exercise is in itself a poor way to lose weight.

Diets don't work inthe vast majority of cases and are only temporary.

So, why do we eat too much?
As rowanwitch says ,this is a complex issue of which I have not the patience or inclination to discuss.

Diabetes is treatable, heart disorders treatment can extend your life and if you are prepared to give up a few years of your life for the gastronomic pleasure, then I have no objection.

I see no value to the nation in a "fat tax".

[drmorgans]

The levy on sugary drinks has led to a reduction in sugar intake.

[Canary42]

The essence of this problem is correctly expressed in the OP's phrase "knee-jerk". You cannot ever change people's behaviour this way - it takes years of relentless education (smoking being a prime example) and social peer-pressure.

Tax is just a Government Money Tree (but of course all Parties do it).

Just a thought (from outside the box!), we could always try draconian taxation of the opposition , i.e. the marketing folk. All anti-healthy advertising to be subject to a very heavy tax/penalty - now that would fill the coffers fairly quickly.

[pastafreak]

I too agree completely with rowans explanation.
Also, humans are hardwired to desire and choose salty and sugary foods, also foods that combine fat and sugar. Eating these foods affect brain chemistry.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/06/sweet-fatty-foods-could-remodel-brain-drive-overeating