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ichi //I’m also bemused as to why khandro thinks Trump was right about the “Wuhan laboratory leak”. That hasn’t been shown to be true. To say the least//
If you still believe in the wet-fish market nonsense, I think you may be part of a very small cohort, even the Chinese don't believe that - despite their protestations to the contrary.
If you still believe in the wet-fish market nonsense, I think you may be part of a very small cohort, even the Chinese don't believe that - despite their protestations to the contrary.
“ the article is working on the assumption that Kamala will be in the White House come the next election”
I don’t think it is if you actually read it carefully. One of its many unfounded assumptions is that Biden won’t stand after a full term and Kamala Harris will stand and will be the nominee and will lose to Trump who will ….
All feels a little like wishful thinking
I don’t think it is if you actually read it carefully. One of its many unfounded assumptions is that Biden won’t stand after a full term and Kamala Harris will stand and will be the nominee and will lose to Trump who will ….
All feels a little like wishful thinking
ichi
'... a suspicion that the coronavirus may have escaped, accidentally or otherwise, [ !!! ] from a laboratory in the central Chinese city of Wuhan where the virus was first recorded.
Its supporters point to the presence of a major biological research facility in the city. The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) has been studying coronaviruses in bats for over a decade.
The institute is a 40-minute drive from the Huanan wet market...'
Source: BBC.
Go figure
The main reason why few wanted to support this theory at first was that it was being proposed by Donald Trump, the first world leader to do so.
'... a suspicion that the coronavirus may have escaped, accidentally or otherwise, [ !!! ] from a laboratory in the central Chinese city of Wuhan where the virus was first recorded.
Its supporters point to the presence of a major biological research facility in the city. The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) has been studying coronaviruses in bats for over a decade.
The institute is a 40-minute drive from the Huanan wet market...'
Source: BBC.
Go figure
The main reason why few wanted to support this theory at first was that it was being proposed by Donald Trump, the first world leader to do so.
From this week's Spectator:
How China tried to suppress the lab leak investigation
By James Forsyth
The lead figure in the World Health Organisation’s work on the origins of Covid-19 has given a remarkable interview to Danish TV. Peter Ben Embarek has revealed just how much political pressure the investigation came under and made clear that he thinks the lab leak hypothesis should not, pace the original report, be dismissed as extremely unlikely.
Embarek told TV2: ‘Until 48 hours before we finished the whole mission, we still had no agreement that we would talk about the laboratory part in the report, so there was a discussion right up to the end about whether to include it or not.’ He said that, ‘initially, they [the Chinese] didn’t want anything about the laboratory included because it was impossible and so it would be a waste of time. We insisted on including it because it was part of the whole issue about where the virus came from.’ He added: ‘I said: "Listen. We need to include this, otherwise we don’t have a report. It's not going to be approved or accepted as a reasonable, credible report.”’
Embarek also makes clear the obstacles that were put in him and his team’s way: ‘We didn't get a look at lab books or documents directly from the lab. We got a presentation and then we got to talk about and ask the questions we wanted to ask, but we didn't get to look at any documentation at all.’ As he points out, the behaviour of the Chinese side raises questions: ‘We should investigate the hypothesis of a laboratory leak, it is for several reasons. One of them is the way in which the Chinese government has behaved. They have tried to suppress all research in this area. We can't know if it's because they're just trying to control the narrative or if it's because they have something to hide.’
Certainly, the fact that the laboratory moved location in December 2019 does raise suspicions. As Embarek recalls, ‘I ask the management, “How old is this lab?” And they say: “Well, it's from December 2019. We moved to these new laboratories on 2 December 2019.”’ He added: ‘It is interesting that the lab moved on 2 December 2019. That's the period when it all started, and you know that when you move a lab, it's disruptive to everything.’
Embarek posits that one likely explanation for the origin of a virus is a laboratory staffer being infected as they were collecting samples: ‘An employee who got infected in the field by taking samples is one of the likely hypotheses. That’s where the virus jumps directly from a bat to a human. In that case, it would be a laboratory worker rather than a random villager or other person who has regular contact with bats. So it's actually in the likely category.’
What is becoming increasingly clear is that the dismissal of the lab leak theory back in March 2020 was a huge mistake. Embarek’s interview backs up Matt Ridley’s view that the lab leak theory is looking increasingly plausible.
Given the amount of time that has elapsed, we will probably never know for sure what the origins of Covid-19 are. But it is becoming clearer by the day that the Chinese government conducted a cover up, for whatever reason, that made the whole situation even worse than it needed to be.
How China tried to suppress the lab leak investigation
By James Forsyth
The lead figure in the World Health Organisation’s work on the origins of Covid-19 has given a remarkable interview to Danish TV. Peter Ben Embarek has revealed just how much political pressure the investigation came under and made clear that he thinks the lab leak hypothesis should not, pace the original report, be dismissed as extremely unlikely.
Embarek told TV2: ‘Until 48 hours before we finished the whole mission, we still had no agreement that we would talk about the laboratory part in the report, so there was a discussion right up to the end about whether to include it or not.’ He said that, ‘initially, they [the Chinese] didn’t want anything about the laboratory included because it was impossible and so it would be a waste of time. We insisted on including it because it was part of the whole issue about where the virus came from.’ He added: ‘I said: "Listen. We need to include this, otherwise we don’t have a report. It's not going to be approved or accepted as a reasonable, credible report.”’
Embarek also makes clear the obstacles that were put in him and his team’s way: ‘We didn't get a look at lab books or documents directly from the lab. We got a presentation and then we got to talk about and ask the questions we wanted to ask, but we didn't get to look at any documentation at all.’ As he points out, the behaviour of the Chinese side raises questions: ‘We should investigate the hypothesis of a laboratory leak, it is for several reasons. One of them is the way in which the Chinese government has behaved. They have tried to suppress all research in this area. We can't know if it's because they're just trying to control the narrative or if it's because they have something to hide.’
Certainly, the fact that the laboratory moved location in December 2019 does raise suspicions. As Embarek recalls, ‘I ask the management, “How old is this lab?” And they say: “Well, it's from December 2019. We moved to these new laboratories on 2 December 2019.”’ He added: ‘It is interesting that the lab moved on 2 December 2019. That's the period when it all started, and you know that when you move a lab, it's disruptive to everything.’
Embarek posits that one likely explanation for the origin of a virus is a laboratory staffer being infected as they were collecting samples: ‘An employee who got infected in the field by taking samples is one of the likely hypotheses. That’s where the virus jumps directly from a bat to a human. In that case, it would be a laboratory worker rather than a random villager or other person who has regular contact with bats. So it's actually in the likely category.’
What is becoming increasingly clear is that the dismissal of the lab leak theory back in March 2020 was a huge mistake. Embarek’s interview backs up Matt Ridley’s view that the lab leak theory is looking increasingly plausible.
Given the amount of time that has elapsed, we will probably never know for sure what the origins of Covid-19 are. But it is becoming clearer by the day that the Chinese government conducted a cover up, for whatever reason, that made the whole situation even worse than it needed to be.
It would probably be more comforting to think of a lab leak as somehow it feels less random and more preventable in future but the scientific stuff I have read I have to say fairly convincingly weighs the likelihood away from that.
Bottom line tho is: we don’t know and neither does ex-President Trump
Bottom line tho is: we don’t know and neither does ex-President Trump
Whatever your view it is worth noting that Trump was elected on a pledge to make the US energy self sufficient. He did that in 2 years and invested in infrastructure the the length and breadth of America. The US was indeed not only energy self sufficient, but was also a net exporter of fuel oil and gas to other Countries. Despite a promise not to, Biden reversed many of those policies within 2 months. America now imports oil from the Arabian Gulf and indeed Nigeria(who needs this energy itself). The prices at the pumps in both America and Europe have risen steadily since, and OPEC now feels able to crank up the prices at will. More of that is on the way and this winter is going to be a shock for everyone, including the UK, as fuel prices are set to go sky high. That is if the oil and gas is still getting through. Think Russian Gas, and Arabian Gulf oil. The people of America will not stand for price rises at the pumps and will vote accordingly.
ichi //Mark as Best Answer
It would probably be more comforting to think of a lab leak as somehow it feels less random and more preventable in future but the scientific stuff I have read I have to say fairly convincingly weighs the likelihood away from that.//
Which "scientific stuff" would that be? can you give some links please?
It would probably be more comforting to think of a lab leak as somehow it feels less random and more preventable in future but the scientific stuff I have read I have to say fairly convincingly weighs the likelihood away from that.//
Which "scientific stuff" would that be? can you give some links please?
//Which "scientific stuff" would that be?//
I think you can file that in the "Book what I have wrote" folder Khandro.
Apart from the energy issue, that needs no other help, there is the Afghanistan debacle to be weighed in the balance of the voting booth. Biden announces the date that he intends for all American troops and personnel to be out of the shy tole, immediately pulls out 3,500 troops, abandons tons of combat kit and infrastructure, and leaves the US embassy staff and other "sundry" US citizens with no protection and a very grateful Taliban mob knowing that there is nothing to stop them planting the poppy fields and flooding the West with Heroin once more. Then he has to send the troops back in again. The yanks had enough of that folly in Saigon. The voters won't forget ... not even the dead ones who usually vote for him.
I think you can file that in the "Book what I have wrote" folder Khandro.
Apart from the energy issue, that needs no other help, there is the Afghanistan debacle to be weighed in the balance of the voting booth. Biden announces the date that he intends for all American troops and personnel to be out of the shy tole, immediately pulls out 3,500 troops, abandons tons of combat kit and infrastructure, and leaves the US embassy staff and other "sundry" US citizens with no protection and a very grateful Taliban mob knowing that there is nothing to stop them planting the poppy fields and flooding the West with Heroin once more. Then he has to send the troops back in again. The yanks had enough of that folly in Saigon. The voters won't forget ... not even the dead ones who usually vote for him.
ichi, I asked, 'Which "scientific stuff" would that be? can you give some links please' to which came no reply - unsurprisingly.
Here's Charles Moore's take on the situation in this morning's Telegraph, a bit chilling really imo;
https:/
Here's Charles Moore's take on the situation in this morning's Telegraph, a bit chilling really imo;
https:/
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