Gay Cake Gate Thrown Out.......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444

[douglas9401]

Don't be coming round here with your so-called logic, tomus, a leading authority on everything, ever, is in control here. :-)

[jno]

I don't think there's a "yet" about it tomus - the problem isn't that he didn't frame his case properly in the ECHR but that he never made it a human rights case, right from the start. If he wanted to do so he'd have to go back and begin again.

[andy-hughes]

tomus - // Unless there was another customer that had the same or similar cake baked for them by the same bakery, then that couple weren't discriminated against.

It's not just in the eyes of the law, it's simple logic. //

It's actually not logic at all.

Your premise suggests that a precedent has to be set, and acted against.

That's not how prejudice works - each instance is unique and be approached as such by anything from instant dismissal to legal action, and everything in between.

If the couple were not seen as the victims of prejudice, there would not have a court case in the first place.

[jackthehat]

I am perfectly aware that many people are against 'gay' marriage for a whole slew of reasons, fortunately the legislative bodies have decreed that it is now permissible in Law.

So, think what you like, I don't give a tinker's chuff.... :o)

[tomus42]

OK thanks jno, I see that now. Even better result then.

[andy-hughes]

// So, think what you like, I don't give a tinker's chuff.... :o) //

Hinted jack discreetly!!!!!

[SparklyKid]

Very childish AH

[andy-hughes]

tomus - // OK thanks jno, I see that now. Even better result then. //

Is it a 'better result' because you don;t agree with the actions of the couple involved?

I can't really see that it is a 'better result', merely that the result is unlikely to be changed by legal process. The result itself is the same as it was.

[andy-hughes]

Sparkly - // Very childish AH //

Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment!!

[SparklyKid]

yawn and yawn again.

[bednobs]

not that this has much to do with the q, but we have to remember we are talking about NI here, which to a lot of "us" (not all) has pretty different views, beliefs and ethos than England. For example, i was talking to my NI friend when she was pregnant and was asking her about the scans she was having, and about how different they are to the routine screening and scans you get in england. She thought it was odd anyone would want the scans i was offered. i thought it odd she wasn't offered them. There is just a fundamental difference in the way NI runs it's affairs that might seem odd to us (who are not from NI) just as english ways (being more secular) probably seem weird to them

[andy-hughes]

bednobs - // not that this has much to do with the q, but we have to remember we are talking about NI here, which to a lot of "us" (not all) has pretty different views, beliefs and ethos than England. For example, i was talking to my NI friend when she was pregnant and was asking her about the scans she was having, and about how different they are to the routine screening and scans you get in england. She thought it was odd anyone would want the scans i was offered. i thought it odd she wasn't offered them. There is just a fundamental difference in the way NI runs it's affairs that might seem odd to us (who are not from NI) just as english ways (being more secular) probably seem weird to them //

I entirely agree that there are cultural differences at play in the scenario we are discussing.

Religion does play a much more important role in life in Ireland that it does in England, which is why the scenario is far more likely to have occurred there than here.

[jno]

bednobs, I did wonder about that but the fact is he won his case in the NI court and then in a UK court. It was only the UK supreme court that ruled against him. So I don't think it's particularly down to local custom.

[tomus42]

If they'd have said 'we're not going to serve you because you're gay or you support gay marriage' that would have been discrimination.

They just said we're not going to do that particular design. If anything they discriminated against the cake.

Just for the record I'm totally for gay marriage and if it was my bakery I would have been happy to do it. I'll bake it now if they want to get in touch.

I just think facts are important however much we might be annoyed by people's silly religious beliefs, and want to see them punished.

[andy-hughes]

jno - // bednobs, I did wonder about that but the fact is he won his case in the NI court and then in a UK court. It was only the UK supreme court that ruled against him. So I don't think it's particularly down to local custom. //

I think the circumstances of the case are more likely to have been found in NI, but the application of the law is, as it should be, applied equally in all areas of the UK.

[andy-hughes]

tomus - // If they'd have said 'we're not going to serve you because you're gay or you support gay marriage' that would have been discrimination.

They just said we're not going to do that particular design. If anything they discriminated against the cake. //

I think you are reaching for a defensive aspect to the bakers' behavior, which is not actually there.

Although none of us heard the exchange, it's perfectly clear that the bakers confirmed that their reason for refusing the order was firmly routed in the offence to their religious beliefs which they perceived as unacceptable, hence the refusal.

As I have said before, this is the third or fourth time - the bakers could have declined the order without reason, or simply made up a reason, too busy etc., in order to avoid giving offence to a customer and losing theirs, and their friends' and colleagues' business in the future, which would have made good business sense.

They preferred to pronounce from their very high horse, and paid the price for their arrogant bigotry.

[SparklyKid]

My jaw is now aching from yawning so much.

[andy-hughes]

Sparkly - // My jaw is now aching from yawning so much. //

Pop off and have a lie down then, your boredom is not adding anything to the discussion.

[SparklyKid]

No discussion , just you practicing your boring alleged word skills, lol.

[tomus42]

AH, so....(yes I am going to do it)....so you would be happy if they discriminated against the people, just so long as they didn't give a reason. It's the 'getting on their high horse' bit that bothers you? OK.

As I said, I think we need to try and get past our own prejudices and look at the facts objectively.