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The ability of the Catholic church simply not to see what goes on with its priests is what has sustained it for hundreds of years. Priests live an unnatural life, and they are supported by a hierarchy of men who live similarly unnatural lives. The horror and damage of child abuse is lost to them because they have no concept of how people who are not priests live,...
14:30 Thu 20th Jan 2022
This has been rattling around for years.
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The ability of the Catholic church simply not to see what goes on with its priests is what has sustained it for hundreds of years.
Priests live an unnatural life, and they are supported by a hierarchy of men who live similarly unnatural lives.
The horror and damage of child abuse is lost to them because they have no concept of how people who are not priests live, love and feel.
Priests are surrounded by worship, facility, help, secrecy, and a desire not to make trouble.
That is why paedophilia is rife in the Catholic church, and always will be.
Priests live an unnatural life, and they are supported by a hierarchy of men who live similarly unnatural lives.
The horror and damage of child abuse is lost to them because they have no concept of how people who are not priests live, love and feel.
Priests are surrounded by worship, facility, help, secrecy, and a desire not to make trouble.
That is why paedophilia is rife in the Catholic church, and always will be.
TTT - // ... it doubly surprises me that billions world wide still follow what is basically an organisation for paedophiles. //
Personally I would not describe it as such - I think it over-simplifies a complex situation within a complex organisation.
My view is that the abuse continues because of the cult of secrecy that surrounds the priesthood, combined with the level of sycophancy that is an absolutely essential aspect of dealing with priests in any meaningful way.
I further believe that the issue of abuse as absolutely not understood in the slightest by the church at any level, because from the bottom to the top, they live unnatural celibate lives, and have no concept of the minds and bodies of children, and the irreparable damage that abuse causes.
If priests had children, there would be a far more vigorous approach to tracking down and dealing with abusing priests, instead of the current practice, of simply moving them from parish to parish until they are too old to do any more damage.
Personally I would not describe it as such - I think it over-simplifies a complex situation within a complex organisation.
My view is that the abuse continues because of the cult of secrecy that surrounds the priesthood, combined with the level of sycophancy that is an absolutely essential aspect of dealing with priests in any meaningful way.
I further believe that the issue of abuse as absolutely not understood in the slightest by the church at any level, because from the bottom to the top, they live unnatural celibate lives, and have no concept of the minds and bodies of children, and the irreparable damage that abuse causes.
If priests had children, there would be a far more vigorous approach to tracking down and dealing with abusing priests, instead of the current practice, of simply moving them from parish to parish until they are too old to do any more damage.
AH 14.30. Not entirely true. Priests were members of families before they were priests - someone’s sons, someone’s brothers - and they have been raised within family units. Most priests are not abusers and those who are would likely be abusers if they were outside the church simply because they’re warped. However, the church doesn’t help because the priesthood demands an unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle and the very nature of the job presents opportunity to abuse - and some take advantage of that in more ways than one. Ask some of those educated by nuns in a convent school.
naomi - // AH 14.30. Not entirely true. Priests were members of families before they were priests - someone’s sons, someone’s brothers - and they have been raised within family units. //
But that gives them experience of being a child - we all have that - but no experience of a loving relationship, or having and raising children.
A priest cannot understand a father's or mother's love for their child, it is utterly alien to them, beyond the best empathy that they can develop, and that is not good enough,. given the power and influence that priests have.
Most priests are not abusers and those who are would likely be abusers if they were outside the church simply because they’re warped. However, the church doesn’t help because the priesthood demands an unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle and the very nature of the job presents opportunity to abuse - and some take advantage of that in more ways than one. //
No argument with that section of your post, at all.
I would never suggest that being a priest makes a man more likely to be an abuser than if he was not a priest, but we agree, the life they lead, and the power they exert, and the protection their receive facilitates abuse to an utterly unacceptable level.
// Ask some of those educated by nuns in a convent school. //
I don't have to, I'm married to one!!
But that gives them experience of being a child - we all have that - but no experience of a loving relationship, or having and raising children.
A priest cannot understand a father's or mother's love for their child, it is utterly alien to them, beyond the best empathy that they can develop, and that is not good enough,. given the power and influence that priests have.
Most priests are not abusers and those who are would likely be abusers if they were outside the church simply because they’re warped. However, the church doesn’t help because the priesthood demands an unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle and the very nature of the job presents opportunity to abuse - and some take advantage of that in more ways than one. //
No argument with that section of your post, at all.
I would never suggest that being a priest makes a man more likely to be an abuser than if he was not a priest, but we agree, the life they lead, and the power they exert, and the protection their receive facilitates abuse to an utterly unacceptable level.
// Ask some of those educated by nuns in a convent school. //
I don't have to, I'm married to one!!
Stickybottle - // It never will be
They will always excuse each other’s behaviour with ‘forgiveness’ because they ‘succumbed to temptation’
They see no wrong //
I think they think they see 'wrong', but like everything else in religion, it's in abstract terms.
Their notion of 'sin' is something that can be eliminated by regret and 'absolution' - the actual physical and mental effects of something like child abuse is something they understand like they understand the dark side of the moon.
They know it's there ... and that's it.
They will always excuse each other’s behaviour with ‘forgiveness’ because they ‘succumbed to temptation’
They see no wrong //
I think they think they see 'wrong', but like everything else in religion, it's in abstract terms.
Their notion of 'sin' is something that can be eliminated by regret and 'absolution' - the actual physical and mental effects of something like child abuse is something they understand like they understand the dark side of the moon.
They know it's there ... and that's it.
naomi - // AH, a lot of people don’t have loving relationships or have children. That doesn’t make them devoid of empathy. //
That's true, but empathy is no substitute for direct experience, in any situation.
I used to empathise with my wife and daughters' period pains, but that doesn't mean I understand what it's like from direct experience.
And yes, a lot of people don;t have loving relationships or children, but only priests and nuns have it as an unbreakable rule of their professional lives, and that is where the problem lies.
The irony is, they are supposed to be loving and supportive of marriage and children, and every single one of them, literally every single one, has no idea what those experiences are like, and never have, and never can, and never will.
The ludicrous irony is, you can;t be a priest and marry and have children, but you can be married and have children and be a priest.
The Catholic church is realistic enough to understand that part of the solution to their ever-dwindling supply of young people to go into a life of celibacy, is to recruit converts from the Anglican church, who can live with their wives and families, and still act in every other way as priests.
I find that absence of logic too bizarre to understand, but then so is a belief in God.
That's true, but empathy is no substitute for direct experience, in any situation.
I used to empathise with my wife and daughters' period pains, but that doesn't mean I understand what it's like from direct experience.
And yes, a lot of people don;t have loving relationships or children, but only priests and nuns have it as an unbreakable rule of their professional lives, and that is where the problem lies.
The irony is, they are supposed to be loving and supportive of marriage and children, and every single one of them, literally every single one, has no idea what those experiences are like, and never have, and never can, and never will.
The ludicrous irony is, you can;t be a priest and marry and have children, but you can be married and have children and be a priest.
The Catholic church is realistic enough to understand that part of the solution to their ever-dwindling supply of young people to go into a life of celibacy, is to recruit converts from the Anglican church, who can live with their wives and families, and still act in every other way as priests.
I find that absence of logic too bizarre to understand, but then so is a belief in God.
Khandro - // AH //Priests live an unnatural life, and they are supported by a hierarchy of men who live similarly unnatural lives.//
It what way is not being married leading an "unnatural life"? //
Not being married and / or having children is not unnatural in and of itself.
Living a life where your entire reason d'etre, your career, your life's work, consists of living in a community and supporting people in their relationships with their partners and their children, counselling them before and after marriage, and educating their children in the faith in which you live, and encouraging them to believe in it and live it, when you live outside every single aspect of those experiences, that is an unnatural life.
It what way is not being married leading an "unnatural life"? //
Not being married and / or having children is not unnatural in and of itself.
Living a life where your entire reason d'etre, your career, your life's work, consists of living in a community and supporting people in their relationships with their partners and their children, counselling them before and after marriage, and educating their children in the faith in which you live, and encouraging them to believe in it and live it, when you live outside every single aspect of those experiences, that is an unnatural life.
Let me get this straight, "A priest cannot understand a father's or mother's love for their child, it is utterly alien to them"
but
An atheist ex BT worker and part time DJ understands the innermost workings of the mind of a priest.
Quite, quite remarkable although not surprising given your imagined expertise in every subject that spews from your keyboard.
but
An atheist ex BT worker and part time DJ understands the innermost workings of the mind of a priest.
Quite, quite remarkable although not surprising given your imagined expertise in every subject that spews from your keyboard.
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