Should We Send Troops To The Ukrain?

[Bobbisox1]

Just listening to Tobias Elwood, the threat of war in Europe is very real this morning

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-crisis-bombs-will-drop-on-ukraine-minutes-after-putin-gives-order-armed-forces-minister-says-12541735

[Ken4155]

No.

[aelmpvw]

panicked for a moment, thought the op said bombs will drop on uk . . .

[ToraToraTora]

No, we should give Ukraine assistance with equipment and training but we should not send our troops. The west will use brutal sanctions against Russia, I can't see actual military action from the west.

[Bobbisox1]

Ken there’s no comeback on such a one word answer!
Do you have a reason for your answer?

[Bobbisox1]

Tora if NATO decide to go in we’d have to wouldn’t we?

[Ken4155]

Ukraine are not a member of NATO. We have no right to ask our young men and women to die in yet another war we do not have any obligation to be involved in.

[ToraToraTora]

yes we'd have to honour our commitment but I don't think they will, not on the ground anyway. Biden is making noises to the effect of non military responses. I work in a bank and we can all pull the plug in minutes, freeze assets, shut down Swift, block trades from Russian interests etc etc. NATO may use air power the US for example have just flown four of B52s to Fairford.

[Bobbisox1]

There was talk this morning of making them a member, I too, don’t want our men and women to go to war but war in Europe is now a very real threat reminiscent of 1939 ( and No I wasn’t around then )

[ToraToraTora]

The general NATO agreement is that if one of us is attacked the others must all respond. If a NATO member takes unilateral action the individual members do not have to back it.

[Bobbisox1]

I don’t understand is why now? and to what ends ( Putin)

[ToraToraTora]

bobbi: 10:20, Putin is worried that Ukraine will join Nato and/or the EUSSR. That just adds more direct abutting to NATO countries. Although Russia already borders NATO I think they see this as an eastward expansion to far. He's also worried that they are becoming more and more westernised in their attitudes and culture. Russia has discarded communism but not it's authoritarian/anti democracy attitudes where as Ukraine has embraced western elections, democracy etc. I think Putin is terrified of a mass public uprising in Russia towards western values and wants to nip it in the bud. Well that's my assessment anyway.

[Bobbisox1]

Thank you Tora you’ve put it better than anything I’ve heard so one would assume this is why he has the backing of another authoritarian regime , China?

[Peter Pedant]

// Ken there’s no comeback on such a one word answer!//
anything longer and the AB whiners start whingeing

as me auld da' was told 1942 the Germans (OK not Ukrainians) were only worried when they were out-numbered 10 - 1. Forces are equal ( 100k ea) ergo no invasion

sozza bit of long sentence there

[Ken4155]

I believe Putin's reasoning is more aligned to the first part of your post, TTT. The Russians, by nature, are a very suspicious bunch and they would see Ukraine's membership of NATO (should it happen) as a direct threat to them.

[Peter Pedant]

I think Putin is terrified of a mass public uprising in Russia towards western values and wants to nip it in the bud.
so you invade Ukraine? - - righto! as one regular numpty says so often

Thank you Tora you’ve put it better than anyone - o god this has to be AB

[ToraToraTora]

invade Ukraine to stop it becoming Nato PP derr, engage the brain cell will you.

[ToraToraTora]

tell you what PP, If we are all such a bunch of dummies lets have your assessment in plain English.

[ichkeria]

The crisis is fundamentally nothing to do with Ukraine’s possible membership of NATO.
That’s just a pretext.
Today or tomorrow Ukraine will probably announce that it will not “seek NATO membership”. This is a sensible move as realistically there is no prospect of it happening in the foreseeable future anyway.
Ukrainian military intelligence assessment of the situation is that Russia could not mount a proper “full” invasion of the country as things stand, while there is a more realistic prospect of incursions or provocations in the eastern and SW regions.
The original question has already been answered above.
I predict, perhaps foolishly, that the current military crisis will soon ease.
But you can be sure that this will not be the end if it. As Peter says, Ukraine is not a military threat to Russia. But it’s aspirations to be a free and prosperous nation on Russia’s doorstep (a much larger version of Estonia) very much are.

[Peter Pedant]

a word of sense from Ich - thx

president of estonia on R4 this am -surprisingly

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "As Peter says, Ukraine is not a military threat to Russia. But it’s aspirations to be a free and prosperous nation on Russia’s doorstep (a much larger version of Estonia) very much are. " - I said that, PP just dished out his usual insults.