If Russia Escalates Its War In Ukraine

[ichkeria]

President Biden has warned of a “heavy price” to be paid by Russia if it uses chemical or biological weapons.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/11/politics/joe-biden-warning-chemical-weapons/index.html

Assuming that direct NATO military involvement is still ruled out, what do you think the options could or would or should be to exact such a price?

[youngmafbog]

NATO cannot and should not interfere until a NATO country is invovled.

Otherwise we end up being accused of just the same as Russia. And imagine the propaganda.

[Peter Pedant]

hi Ich
terrible idea - how will they escalate the war?

Not bio anyway - you cant occupy a country if you bio it

Seems odd that we allow Putin to pummel a country but nothing else.

[Peter Pedant]

// to blatantly goad the obviously unhinged Putin in this fashion?//

we said we would shoot the German leaders if they put Allied POWs into concentration camps - - and by an large they didnt. A few found in Mauthausen and Sachsenhausen
( didnt stop the guards threatening me auld da' - "dont be too free with your mouth, there are much more unpleasant places we can send you to")

[Khandro]

"Criminal orders" no less. From today's Telegraph:

'It might have been the honesty of a condemned man who had nothing left to lose. Or it might have been due to the presence of several burly Ukrainian soldiers watching from the back of the room. But when Lieutenant Colonel Maxim Krishtop, a captured Russian pilot, was paraded before TV cameras in Kyiv on Friday afternoon, he gave much more than his name, rank and number.

Shot down during a bombing raid last Sunday, he confessed to dropping tons of bombs on civilian areas, and begged Ukrainians forgive him for his “terrible crimes”. He then issued an appeal to his Russian comrades now encircling Kyiv - where he himself is currently a prisoner of war.

“The invasion of such a huge city as Kyiv is pointless - it will lead to huge losses of life on both sides, and huge destruction,” he said. “I urge you stop following criminal orders, stop fighting, and stop killing civilians - you can see we have already lost this war.” '

[dannyk13]

I hope he isn't thinking of returning to Russia any time soon.Putin must be fuming.

[fender62]

you these pariah states could unite and become like an axis against the west..specially china, to set a new world under under the boot.
doubt it would have any success aka ww3, but we all lose.

[jim360]

I'd support Nato intervention if, and only if, it was well-established that doing so doesn't make the situation worse. But the problem is that this is far from likely. If, say, Nato intervention is perceived as posing an existential threat to Russia, or at least to the present regime, then surely the chances of their lashing out, with the ultimate weapon, are extremely high. At the very least, too high to take that risk. The tragedy is that this strategy will see many more Ukrainians pay with their lives.

But if victory in Ukraine can be achieved in a way that doesn't cause the War to spill over into something larger-scale, that still seems preferable. No matter how horrific, and cold, it is to say so.

[Khandro]

Israel's 'Iron Dome' would be very expedient, but I don't know the logistics of setting up such a thing (or to be honest, how it works!).

I'm sure that it has at least been discussed in the recent talks between between Ukraine & Israel.

[itchycopark]

ichkeria
do you have any knowledge of how NATO works ? it would immediately put the west at WAR with Russia, .that was a silly statement you made earlier

[sandra4444]

Sending arms to Ukraine is being at war with Russia.
Implementing sanctions is being at war with Russia.
Freezing assets is being at war with Russia.
We are already at war with Russia.
A bully never stops until you stop them, or the bulling gets worse.
At the moment Putin is laughing at the west , he called a bluff and we all went into hiding. Just what he wanted and hoped for.

[naomi24]

I tend to agree with you, Sandra. Unless he’s stopped he won’t stop.

[jim360]

To what sandra says: in practice, sure. But, for reasons that apparently make sense even if I can't explain why, there's a recognised difference between a "proxy" war, which this is, and an actual war. For example, the US supplied the UK throughout 1940 and 1941, and was in effect already working against Nazi Germany (and Japan, to a lesser extent); but, prior to the declarations in December 1941, German and Italian forces didn't directly attack Americans.

So in that sense, we aren't yet at a state of actual war with Russia. Given that such a War would carry a high risk of leading to nuclear strikes, everybody seems keen to avoid this. It's dishonest, and of course those who pay the heaviest price are the Ukrainians, but all the same it seems better for now to avoid escalating and to seek as far as possible an alternative solution -- or to pile as much pressure on Russia as possible so that the Russians are the ones who sue for Peace.

[sandra4444]

Spreading fear is the only thing that keeps Putin in place, and that's been the case for many years.

Again bullies feed on the fear they spread, that's why he threatened the worst, knowing it would work and scare the West.

However if he see's that there is little hope in winning this war I have no doubt he will use gas to murder the population, women and children that at this time are hiding away in basements, gas will sink down to these areas, it work in Syria.

The missile attack on the nuke power station is a good example of spreading fear. Had they really wanted to destroy that power station they could have done without any problem at all. It was a deliberate miss, but none the less reckless.

My way... would be to inform Putin that Nato troops will be entering Ukraine forthwith to protect civilians from his murderess deliberate constant attack on civilians. We will be escorting civilians in a peaceful way out of the conflict. However should we while escorting these civilians out become under fire, you will leave us no choice but to retaliate.

Conclude, we are there to rescue civilians only. We have not declared war on Russia. ie foot in the door, lie and deny just like they do day after day.

[david small]

If we call his bluff. Would his fellow Russians allow him to destroy mother Russia? Or would he withdraw and lick his wounds like a wounded animal? Considering the consequences of nuclear proliferation, personally I think he’s desperately bluffing. But if he is mentally unhinged and stupidity reins supreme, who knows?

[naomi24]

That’s the problem isn’t it David. But how far does the rest of the world allow him to go before either calling his bluff - or deciding to do the unthinkable and capitulate?

[sandra4444]

The longer Nato sit about doing nothing the more confident and murderous he will become.

And I would gamble every penny I had that Putin told China that he would be threatening the west with nukes, but to ignore it.

China have made the odd comment here and there to make out they are concerned. An all out nuke war would affect everyone, they are to relaxed in my opinion. What they are looking for, and at, is any weakness in Nato when they are threatened with such.

[Peter Pedant]

// I hope he isn't thinking of returning to Russia any time soon. //
1945 such people were straight in a Gulag or before a death squad on return

Time for a repeat: I met Lukacz Martin in 1980 and asked where his twisty twee fingers had come from. Eastern Front he said. (frost bite and bullets) He added he was in the Red Army ( poss ukraine) deserted and fought for the Wehrmacht. How come you are still alive I squealed. The betrayal of Yalta - you know reader the place Togo thought was mis-spelt Malta - and return of the prisoners to their deaths. H e had walked to England from Trst. Trieste didnt have any vowels in those days - and then recognised my surname as he was one of me aud da's patients

[Peter Pedant]

Israels iron dome - wot dat den?
missile system to shoot down incoming missiles
blimey you have to be quick to do dat den
sure do
According to Israeli officials, it is about 90% effective in stopping short range rockets fired by Hezbollah terrorists

so 10% get froo - not much good in a nuclear attack

[Khandro]

PP If only 10% of your negativity got through we'd all be better off

[davebro]

I think Putin may start WW3 - we should get our retaliation first.