Civil Partnerships

[MrsT]

Now that civil partnerships are going ahead, is there a danger that impressionable young people will start to believe that homsexuality is normal?

[WaldoMcFroog]

First, let me say that I have known many very nice people, men and women, who were gay, and I don't have a problem with that. Also, I think the world has benefitted enormously from famous gay people such as Oscar Wilde and Freddie Mercury (and no doubt I'll get stick for saying that).

Nope, I'd agree with both of those, but at the same time, some gay people have had a detrimental effect, just the same as some straight people have. Being gay isn't a defacto positive or negative.

But I do think that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of homosexuality. It has become almost fashionable to be gay. All soaps have to have gay kissing, all comedies have to be full of gays and, for example, Jonathon Ross regularly hints that he will have to give it a try.

If you were placed in a room and made to watch nothing but gay-related programming for a week, would it affect your sexuality?

It's like some people want to fetishise homosexuality as this all powerful thing that has the power to totally alter society and it doesn't. No one would ever talk about heterosexuality in the terms that are sometimes used about homosexuality. Listening to some people, it's like they think there's a gay SAS regiment posed to mince down the streets of the UK making everyone change their sexual orientation in their wake against their will!

[WaldoMcFroog]

Even when MrsT suggests that homosexuality may not be "normal" she gets lambasted.

The use of the word 'danger' implied an inherant anti-gay bias, but regardless, people on both sides seem to have been generally pretty measured, I'd say.

What concerns me is that there may be young people who do get drawn into homosexuality who might otherwise have lived a hetero life and been happy with it.

'Get drawn into homosexuality' makes it sound like heroin addiction! There are not crowds of shady looking gays hanging around on street corners trying to get people addicted to their sexuality! 'Come on kids, try a bit of same-sex action... you know you want to... Just try it once and you'll never look at someone of the opposite sex again...'

But regardless, what if your young person then (ignoring the fact, as attested to by some of the ABers and supported by scientific understanding that sexuality is not a matter of choice for most people) ends up homosexual and has a happy life? If we stop trying to procribe certain behaviours as 'wrong' the whole thing becomes much simpler, regardless of whether they choose to experiment with their sexuality or not.

I believe that some people are born gay and I consider that to be normal and I have no problem with it. [SNIP for lenght] some people have short-sightedness, which is a deviation from the way it should be.

Sorry, is it normal or deviant?

Right - you can lynch me now for daring to suggest that homosexuality isn't a wonderful thing!

I don't think anyone's saying a particular sexuality is wonderful or not wonderful or better than another one. Surely a person's sexuality simply 'is'? It's not a matter of making a choice on the basis of which variation seems the most interesting or whatever.

[LATECOMER]

Hello Aliflump. Didn't mean to lecture, but a lot of people seem all too eager to start calling people rather harsh names and i sometimes wonder why. I know it wasn't a totally unbiased question but " poisonous " a bit harsh.

[AliFlump]

I accept your point latecomer, it was bit harsh but the post just screamed homophobe at me as soon as i read it. Given that MrsT hasnt engaged in the argument i think its probably a wind up but it has sparked a good debate.

[LATECOMER]

I still fail to understand why people can't grasp this but i will say it again! Some (quite a lot) of opp sex couples DON'T WANT to get married despite living together for a long time and the only way for these people to get equal rights with CP or married couples is to "give in " and get married . I think CPs are a good thing but they should be open to all..! I KNOW i can get married but i choose not. I am in a stable relatiopnship which has lasted 19 years and will continue till i die ( i hope!! ) but i will always be penalised for not doing what society would like me to. Until now i accepted it but this business is totally unfair

[WaldoMcFroog]

How is it totally unfair, in terms of Civil Partnerships?

It has extended the right to (essentially) get married to more people. Anyone who wants those rights still has to go through a legal process. You're neither better nor worse off than before and some other people have now got the same rights to choose to get married as you have always had, so surely it's more equitable than before?

I can accept that you don't think you should need to go though a legal ceremony to get the rights, but I cannot see how the civil partnerships have changed the position you're in one inch.

[LATECOMER]

Hi Waldo. a "right" should be open to everyone in society not just those who fit the bill.

[WaldoMcFroog]

But that's the point, surely? The right has now been extended to all, but you're not obligated to claim them!

[sp1814]

Latecomer

Hold onto your horses...because we've had a couple of disagreements in the past...but I actually understand your reasoning here.

I think what you're saying is that civil partnerships should be open to all. However, my argument is this: if civil partnerships offer no extra benefits than the traditional marraige...why not get married. You won't be any worse off, surely? You wouldn't be any better of in a CP.

So if as a straight couple, you can have exactly the same privileges in a marraige that CP'ers have in a CP - why not go for that option?

[sp1814]

hang on Latecomer - I've just thought this through to it's logical conclusion...if straight couples could enter CPs, would you be happy with gay couples getting married.

I mean fully married...with the whole reception thing, together with the bad speeches, and fights between estranged family members?

[LATECOMER]

Hello again sp1814. I don't have a big problem with this! Its just that i perceive this to be unfair and its rattled my cage ( a little!!! ). Gay weddings is a whole different matter and a question for the more religious people to answer! I can't see the Church going for that...! Can you? But CPs are a good thing Fully married! why not? Then they can have Mothers in law as well!!!!!!!!!!

[Englishbird]

ah, I get it now!! Latecomer, you want to be able to have a civil partnership. Sorry, but that's not how your posts were reading. Ok, I take your point, in theory it should be open to all couples regardless of sex.

I don't think that's the fault of the same sex couples tho, and maybe it highlights how the system has worked against them for so long.

So you're essentially in the same boat as many of them, you have a choice, but not the one you want.

[LATECOMER]

Thanks Englishbird. Sometimes getting a point over that seems simple in your own head can,in fact, be very difficult. Have you ever posted something only to read it again and think "I wish i could rewrite that" but tooooo late then! And then there are my own simple spelling mistakes ( they make me cringe )

[LATECOMER]

Aliflump is right...! MrsT asked the original question and has never ventured a reply since...! How rude is that???

[haysi06]

Mrs T - saw your post and have not yet read the 54 replies. Whilst it is not my orientation I think that homosexuality is normal. How completely homophobic of you and downright rude. I'd change your question to 'now that anyone can use their civil rights to freedom of speech and thought - do you think that it is right to be homophobic and small minded? why should people who love each other be denied the right to have their union recognised by law?? completely flumoxed as to why you posted this - other than to get a reaction. impressionable young people would be more affected by your narrowmindedness - you are advocating shame and humiliation - this is the 21st century.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

i find it very sad that you serial answerers havent got better things to do than bitch at each other 5 days before xmas.

[haysi06]

norman - it was my first post here - felt so strongly about such a blatent homophobic post - am surprised it has not been deleted

[NORMANTHEDOG]

it was not aimed at you,sorry

[kick3m0n]

Just to pick up on Latecomers point, Peter Tatchell (gay rights campaigner extraordinaire) was interviewed on Sky News on Monday. He said that for years he's been campaigning for equality for homosexuals. He said that we live in a democracy and all individuals should be equal within that democracy. He also said that while he was pleased at the CP development, he thought it was ridiculous that CPs were not available to opposite sex couples. his words, "two wrongs do not make a right" and that another inequality (heterophobia was the word he used) was now being perpetuated. I have to say, he spoke very well, at length, with some humour and self deprication, and I agreed wholeheartedly with him.

As for the original question - Hippy said it all more eloquently than I could.

[sp1814]

Good grief...are we saying that we all pretty much agree?

After all that?

Darn it.

By the way, Latecomer - never thought of the whole mother-in-law issue.

Right back to the Abba documentary....