Trump

[Paigntonian]

A former president calls the current president 'an enemy of the state'. Extraordinary use of language and, sadly, an awful example of the debasement of US politics. For at least one person on this site I would only add that this is almost a Weimar Republic moment. Extremist, lying, self-obsessed nutter against the status quo, however flawed the current government may be.

[Ellipsis]

There are laws against departing POTUSes taking secret documents with them.

Trump's argument: well I declassified all those documents so they weren't secret any more!

Now he either did declassify them or he didn't. If he didn't, he has a big problem!

But, notwithstanding that, should he have been allowed to declassify those secret documents? It sounds a bit of an easy workaround to the laws against a departing POTUS taking away secret documents!

And, more interestingly, why did he want those documents?

[douglas9401]

Possibly a gift for his 'fierce', 'smart' buddy.

He did win the presidency for him after all.

[Hymie]

Michael Cohen gives his belief as to why Trump took the secret documents in this short video.

[Untitled]

it really does not matter if he declassified them... it is still illegal to run off with them or destroy them

[douglas9401]

Sweary. This may upset non-viewers of Have I Got News Fot You. :-)

[Untitled]

Under US code 18 2071 it is illegal to remove/conceal/damage/destroy public records regardless of whether or not they are classified:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2071

under 18 793 it is illegal to treat documents with gross negligence sufficient to cause documents to be removed or lost or stolen or destroyed (section f):

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

[Spicerack]

^ You should get in touch with the DOJ. They've tried everything to nail Trump without success.
With your superior knowledge of US law he won't have a chance.

[Togo]

54 of the gotcha "Top Secret" files scattered on the floor(That would be Trump then. We know that he is not at all fastidious) for effect ... Were empty! Haha empty files do not a case make.

[Atheist]

Togo; you seem pleased that Trump may have destroyed evidence. Am I misinterpreting your post?

[Togo]

//Am I misinterpreting your post?//

When did you ever do anything else? Not just with my posts mind ... everything.

[Atheist]

Togo; was I misinterpreting your post?

[Ellipsis]

> 54 of the gotcha "Top Secret" files scattered on the floor(That would be Trump then. We know that he is not at all fastidious) for effect ... Were empty!

Clearly Trump would not remove 54 empty files, take them to his house and scatter them on the floor. Those files originally contained something and later became emptied. What was that something and where is it now?

[Togo]

Or ... empty files were taken in to use as evidence padding and scattered about to create "outrage" . Haha . Perhaps that is why there has been a "special master" review introduced to proceedings. Who knows? Non on here for sure, but some make no claim to be judge and jury on US matters. Others do . They have a tendancy to appoint themselves judge and jury on all sorts of contentious issues though.

[Ellipsis]

Who knows indeed. What I do know is that, in addition to the empty files, there were:

* 3 documents marked confidential
* 17 documents marked secret
* 7 documents marked top secret

These are enough, empty files don't need to be "planted".

What is Trump's reason for these files being in his house. Is it that they were planted? Is it that he took them and has every right to be holding them? Or is it something else?

[Hymie]

Of course, a major problem facing prosecutors in gaining a successful prosecution against Trump is that if he says in his defence that the secret documents were planted by the FBI (or little green men from Mars), 5 of the jurors will believe him.

[Togo]

// Is it that they were planted? Is it that he took them and has every right to be holding them? Or is it something else?//

I thought that some of us had already "decided". Due process will, if conducted correctly, answer or dismiss those questions. Just like all the other questions and accusations. Then we can have a look at a laptop hard drive content and maybe a copy of thousands of top secret emails ... perhaps.

[Ellipsis]

I didn't ask about due process, I asked about Trump's reason for the files being on his property.

I very much doubt that "due process" will determine that the president is an enemy of the state and the FBI planted the files! Because if that theory was correct then due process itself would have to be in on the conspiracy, wouldn't it ...

[Hymie]

I think you’ll find that Trump never used e-mail; perhaps he’s cleverer than some give him credit for.

[Togo]

//I asked about Trump's reason for the files being on his property.//

But... But ... you haven't yet established when they got there, and whether the reasons were indeed Trump's.

[Ellipsis]

Trump's reason:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62799425
> Mr Trump, meanwhile, denies any kind of wrongdoing, arguing that as president he had declassified all the documents, and that they were kept securely at his Mar-a-Lago home.

The idea that he can declassify any document he wants, if that means he can take it away and keep it for himself at the end of his presidency, is ludicrous. Why did he want those documents ?