Oath Of Allegiance

[Ken4155]

When i was 'sworn' into the army, i recall swearing my allegiance to HM Queen Elizabeth II, her Heirs and Successors. I doubt very much that serving soldiers will have to undergo an oath of allegiance to King Charles - of course, new recruits will do so. So why do MPs have to now swear allegiance to the King? Do they not swear allegiance to the Heirs and Successors of the reigning Monarch?

[barry1010]

They don't have to - every MP will have the option to but it's not compulsory.

[FatticusInch]

Apparently not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)

I found that odd too, I took it that the Heirs and Successors bit was standard for all.
Maybe it’s to do with Parliamentary procedure?

[douglas9401]

Possibly because they can't be trusted to remain loyal, even to their party as evidenced by the current PM, and it's a top-up or refresher for those prone to spending their down time in the bars and may have forgotten why they're actually there.

[Ken4155]

^
:-))

[FatticusInch]

barry1010
//They don't have to - every MP will have the option to but it's not compulsory.//

I always took it that it is compulsory, one of the reasons Gerry Adams never physically took his seat in Parliament I believe?

[barry1010]

When they are first elected MP they swear the allegiance to the monarch but the question is asking about existing MPs swearing allegiance for a second time, this time to King Charles.

[Ken4155]

It would appear Barry is correct;

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/king-charles-assession-mps-oath-24972282

[Ken4155]

Just senior MPs today then anyone who wants to later. All seems a bit odd?

[FatticusInch]

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/swearingin/

//Oaths of allegiance to the Crown are common in British public life. They are similar to a declaration of loyalty to the state.

Members of both Houses of Parliament are required by law to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown.

MPs cannot take their seat, speak in debates, vote or receive a salary until taking the oath or affirmation. They could also be fined £500 and have their seat declared vacant “as if they were dead” if they attempted to do so.

The same rule applies to Members of the Lords.//

[Peter Pedant]

The allegiance is carried over
to a person

we English had a weak form - The Holy Roman Empire ( 800-1800 sort of) had a greater mediaeval form. Our History master was a german refugee so we er got the full monty.
( boy as emperor in chair) underling swearing his foef kneeling....

MPs may have to swear at each session - depends what their rules are ( which of course as we know from Boris recently, are not appealable ( justiciable ) at law.

[Peter Pedant]

// are required by law to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown.//

that is the law about 1880 - see Chas Bradlaugh - he wdnt swear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaths_Act_1888

You MAY say even if you affirm it is still an oath
(words) - Quakers and Brethren may disagree ( they affirm but they dont swear, )

The wording of the oath used to be designed to filter out Romans(*) - and was changed to allow a Roman to become Lord Chancellor - he didnt ( make it)

( "I swear by lamighty god to uphold the laws of england and whoop the Bishop of Rome whenever I can.....""
Romans of course saying - I cant swear that ! - they take it seriously they do)

[Peter Pedant]

The Americans who naturalise - not many there are a few -always say, swearing allegiance to aperson is really un-cool

we say swearing to a flag is a bit screwy

[Peter Pedant]

Peter Rawlinson - oath changed to allow a Roman to take it in conscience and then he nevva got the letter !

[jno]

surely if you've sworn allegiance to the queen's heirs and successors, that already includes Charles, William and George? And anyone else who comes along, even if they're successors who weren't heirs? (Usurpers perhaps.)