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Talk About Hypocrisy!
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German TV critical of the Queen for not apologising for colonialism and the "attrocities" that went with it. That really does take the biscuit doesn't it? How do Germans think they have the right to criticise anyone about human rights? With their recent record? It must be a wind up, but no, look here:
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untitled: "if the british had nothing to apologise for then how do you explain Operation Legacy? " - probably to appease a load of hand wringing 5C lefties who hate their own country. We invaded and civilised these places. If it was that bad why is half the world camped in Calais desperate to get here an "suffer" British rule?
TTT - imposing 'civilisation' on Africa included :
1. Drawing lines on maps which created artificial countries which had no basis in the existing tribal and cultural groupings - which then quite predictably became ungovernable when the british army pulled out
2. Transporting millions of people as slaves to work in british colonial plantations
3. Installing corrupt (but 'useful') hierarchies to perpetuate the misery after the british army left
I personally don't need to apologise for these wrongs - the people who carried them out were also exploiting my (english) ancestors and stealing most of the land/assets of britain for their own use - but the UK Government should be apologising on behalf of the nation.
1. Drawing lines on maps which created artificial countries which had no basis in the existing tribal and cultural groupings - which then quite predictably became ungovernable when the british army pulled out
2. Transporting millions of people as slaves to work in british colonial plantations
3. Installing corrupt (but 'useful') hierarchies to perpetuate the misery after the british army left
I personally don't need to apologise for these wrongs - the people who carried them out were also exploiting my (english) ancestors and stealing most of the land/assets of britain for their own use - but the UK Government should be apologising on behalf of the nation.
"We invaded and civilised these places."
it interests me that you would say that ToraToraTora because if anything it indicates that we in the UK might not have not done as good a job at confronting the nasty parts of our history as Germany has...
i am not sure exactly what you mean by "civilize" but those few places who were not colonized did manage to develop industry without colonial empires to exploit them and there is no reason that our own colonies would not have done the same had we not conquered them... the british empire was created and upheld violently for the benefit of the British, not for those who were colonised...
it interests me that you would say that ToraToraTora because if anything it indicates that we in the UK might not have not done as good a job at confronting the nasty parts of our history as Germany has...
i am not sure exactly what you mean by "civilize" but those few places who were not colonized did manage to develop industry without colonial empires to exploit them and there is no reason that our own colonies would not have done the same had we not conquered them... the british empire was created and upheld violently for the benefit of the British, not for those who were colonised...
i agree that british people individually have no reason to feel "guilt" or apologise (both are useless anyway) but the monarchy as an institution did preside over the empire - and some of its atrocities did take place early in the reign of queen elizabeth... british monarchs choose when they accept the crown to be identified with it as am institution, so i do not think it unreasonable for them to be the focal point for criticism
//if the british had nothing to apologise for then how do you explain Operation Legacy?//
Operation Legacy was not about hiding things that later needed apologies. It was about hiding things to prevent the UK government suffering embarassment.
//Apologising for history is ridiculous. It serves no practical purpose.//
Spot on, naomi. The rights and wrongs of the British Empire (and there were plenty of both) are immaterial. There is nobody alive today who was responsible for the British Empire and nobody alive today has anything to apologise for in connection with it. It’s like me apologising to a murder victim’s family if my grandfather was the murderer. An utterly pointless, virtue-signalling gesture. This "artificial guilt" leads to such errant nonsense as this:
https:/
That is a response to a FOI request about the teaching of "white privilege" in the Metropolitan Police. In particular:
• Ask the student police officers if they have ever felt guilty about being white or having privilege?
So student police officers in the UK's largest police force are being asked if they feel guilty for having white skin – something that they have no control over and were not responsible for. To suggest they should feel “guilty” is about as daft as suggesting they should do likewise for having two legs. The Metropolitan Police is a disfunctional organisation that is unfit for purpose and which has been hijacked by people who have no particular interest in robust policing, but are more concerned with social engineering.
That is a measure of what is happening in this country. People are being made to feel guilty for events they are not responsible for because other people may have been disadvantaged by their ancestors’ actions. The lunatics truly are trying to run the asylum and they seem to be succeeding. If it is not stopped many of the country’s services and institutions will soon become as dysfunctional as the Met.
Operation Legacy was not about hiding things that later needed apologies. It was about hiding things to prevent the UK government suffering embarassment.
//Apologising for history is ridiculous. It serves no practical purpose.//
Spot on, naomi. The rights and wrongs of the British Empire (and there were plenty of both) are immaterial. There is nobody alive today who was responsible for the British Empire and nobody alive today has anything to apologise for in connection with it. It’s like me apologising to a murder victim’s family if my grandfather was the murderer. An utterly pointless, virtue-signalling gesture. This "artificial guilt" leads to such errant nonsense as this:
https:/
That is a response to a FOI request about the teaching of "white privilege" in the Metropolitan Police. In particular:
• Ask the student police officers if they have ever felt guilty about being white or having privilege?
So student police officers in the UK's largest police force are being asked if they feel guilty for having white skin – something that they have no control over and were not responsible for. To suggest they should feel “guilty” is about as daft as suggesting they should do likewise for having two legs. The Metropolitan Police is a disfunctional organisation that is unfit for purpose and which has been hijacked by people who have no particular interest in robust policing, but are more concerned with social engineering.
That is a measure of what is happening in this country. People are being made to feel guilty for events they are not responsible for because other people may have been disadvantaged by their ancestors’ actions. The lunatics truly are trying to run the asylum and they seem to be succeeding. If it is not stopped many of the country’s services and institutions will soon become as dysfunctional as the Met.
bang on judge, here's another cracker from TROB:
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"Operation Legacy was not about hiding things that later needed apologies. It was about hiding things to prevent the UK government suffering embarassment. "
the distinction is semantic... many of those documents were deemed "embarrassing" because they related to the brutality of the imperial regime (e.g. it is known that some of them concerned torturing people who had been arrested for resisting our presence)
we were not the "good guys"... we were the biggest of the nasty and oppressive european colonial empires...
individual british people should not be apologising or feeling guilty... they are both irrational and useless... but we should confront the nasty bits of our history rather than pretend they do not exist
the distinction is semantic... many of those documents were deemed "embarrassing" because they related to the brutality of the imperial regime (e.g. it is known that some of them concerned torturing people who had been arrested for resisting our presence)
we were not the "good guys"... we were the biggest of the nasty and oppressive european colonial empires...
individual british people should not be apologising or feeling guilty... they are both irrational and useless... but we should confront the nasty bits of our history rather than pretend they do not exist
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