ChatterBank8 mins ago
Is It Time To Ban All Pit Bull Type Dogs?
Six people were killed by these types of dogs last year and now we have what I believe to be the second child killed this year.
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Pit Bulls are banned - but the rest don't appear to be. And before someone says 'it's not the dog, it's the owner', I don’t believe it is. These dogs are renowned for their aggressive temperament which is why Pit Bulls have been banned. And yet we still have rogue breeders cashing in. I personally know someone who has just bought a 'Bully XL', an American Bulldog, on credit because she can't afford the £500 the breeder wants so how she is going to pay vet bills, etc, is anyone's guess. She lives with her nine year old son in a two bedroom high rise flat. Sensible? No! A status symbol for the hard of thinking? Yes.
https:/
Pit Bulls are banned - but the rest don't appear to be. And before someone says 'it's not the dog, it's the owner', I don’t believe it is. These dogs are renowned for their aggressive temperament which is why Pit Bulls have been banned. And yet we still have rogue breeders cashing in. I personally know someone who has just bought a 'Bully XL', an American Bulldog, on credit because she can't afford the £500 the breeder wants so how she is going to pay vet bills, etc, is anyone's guess. She lives with her nine year old son in a two bedroom high rise flat. Sensible? No! A status symbol for the hard of thinking? Yes.
Answers
naomi, that gives a new meaning to "the never, never" - "lord, we hope not".
12:22 Fri 03rd Feb 2023
I get tired of people saying that all dogs should be muzzled when in public whenever a dog attack occurs! My dog would hate it if I put a muzzle on him, he wouldn't understand and why should I because of a knee jerk reaction? An awful lot of these horrific fatalities happen at home where thick, ignorant people own huge dogs in small houses and never walk them or treat them right - accidents waiting to happen. Yes, I DO blame the owners and yet it goes on and on and nothing ever gets done about it, apart from knee jerk reactions that all dogs should be muzzled! What should we do about the monsters who torture and kill their own babies, neuter all men and women - that would certainly solve the problem?! As usual, a few bad owners make it hard for the many, many good ones (me included) and quite frankly I am sick of it.
I think that woman you talk about naomi is stupid beyond belief, but sadly quite typical today!
I think that woman you talk about naomi is stupid beyond belief, but sadly quite typical today!
People who say dog attacks are 'not the dog, but the owner' are wrong.
It absolutely is the dog, every single time without exception, and for one very simple reason - dogs do what dogs do, and there are no, that is NO exceptions.
Dogs are pack animals, and they operate on a status and pecking order system.
In a wild pack, the biggest strongest dog leads the pack, and stays leader until one of the lower dogs decides to take a chance and challenge for leadership.
This goes one of two ways - if the pack leader is still strong enough, he will vanquish his opponent, who, if he survives, remains in his place to fight another day.
If the upcoming dog wins, the leader is deposed, the new leader takes over, and so on, until someone catches him on the day when he is too old or ill to win, and he loses his pack as well.
Elsewhere in the pack, there may be other fights for position, with a younger dog taking on an older, in order to move up the pack, and eventually challenge for the top job.
Transmit that system to a family, and you have the dominant adult, usually the male, and the rest of the pack, including the children, and the dog.
Even though the dog is brought up with children, and never even looks sideways at them, his pack instinct is still there, because it's bred into all dogs.
And although the dog is likely to be too intimidated by the sheer size of the adult human to challenge for the top job, the leader, there is nothing at all stopping them from moving up the pack, especially if the next up in line is small enough for them to have a go at.
That is one of the main reasons why family pet dogs attack children without warning, it's time for a change in the pack order, and the dog fancies a chance to move up, by asserting its superiority over the next in line, and there is only ever one way to do that.
No matter how loving and well trained your pet is, that instinct is primal, and unchanging, and any dog, from the biggest to the smallest, can feel the urge to move up the line, and do something about it, with no prior warning whatsoever.
Of course, the vast majority of dogs live happily in their pack, and stay in their position.
But that's luck, not training, or breeding, or anything else.
If the dog is big enough to harm or kill a child, its instinct has horrific consequences - and of course he's 'never done that before ...' - the first time is the last time.
I would never have a dog of any size around children, it's simply not worth the risk of expecting a dog not to do what dogs do.
It absolutely is the dog, every single time without exception, and for one very simple reason - dogs do what dogs do, and there are no, that is NO exceptions.
Dogs are pack animals, and they operate on a status and pecking order system.
In a wild pack, the biggest strongest dog leads the pack, and stays leader until one of the lower dogs decides to take a chance and challenge for leadership.
This goes one of two ways - if the pack leader is still strong enough, he will vanquish his opponent, who, if he survives, remains in his place to fight another day.
If the upcoming dog wins, the leader is deposed, the new leader takes over, and so on, until someone catches him on the day when he is too old or ill to win, and he loses his pack as well.
Elsewhere in the pack, there may be other fights for position, with a younger dog taking on an older, in order to move up the pack, and eventually challenge for the top job.
Transmit that system to a family, and you have the dominant adult, usually the male, and the rest of the pack, including the children, and the dog.
Even though the dog is brought up with children, and never even looks sideways at them, his pack instinct is still there, because it's bred into all dogs.
And although the dog is likely to be too intimidated by the sheer size of the adult human to challenge for the top job, the leader, there is nothing at all stopping them from moving up the pack, especially if the next up in line is small enough for them to have a go at.
That is one of the main reasons why family pet dogs attack children without warning, it's time for a change in the pack order, and the dog fancies a chance to move up, by asserting its superiority over the next in line, and there is only ever one way to do that.
No matter how loving and well trained your pet is, that instinct is primal, and unchanging, and any dog, from the biggest to the smallest, can feel the urge to move up the line, and do something about it, with no prior warning whatsoever.
Of course, the vast majority of dogs live happily in their pack, and stay in their position.
But that's luck, not training, or breeding, or anything else.
If the dog is big enough to harm or kill a child, its instinct has horrific consequences - and of course he's 'never done that before ...' - the first time is the last time.
I would never have a dog of any size around children, it's simply not worth the risk of expecting a dog not to do what dogs do.
Pit bulls and similar dogs (staffies) are to my eye the ugliest dogs of all. They have jaws that lock once they have taken hold, and are thus almost impossible to stop their attack unless you have a ball-point pen or twig or (if you're brave) a finger, to insert in their vulnerable. They were bred for one purpose and that purpose is not necessary in the modern western world, especially in the 'pet' market.
Just re-read your OP naomi. That case you quote (9th floor etc) is surely a potential disaster waiting to happen.
Perhaps licensing is an answer, with applicants having to undergo similar assessment to those done for adopting children. I understand some rescue centres do do such assessments before they will release an animal.
Perhaps licensing is an answer, with applicants having to undergo similar assessment to those done for adopting children. I understand some rescue centres do do such assessments before they will release an animal.
I know whatever I say will be seized on but for what its worth Pit Bulls and any dog of pit bull type are supposedly already banned, along with three other breeds that are not seen in this country anyway. The problem is there are so many crosses that people sell as breeds, but are in fact just badly bred mongrels. Even the so called American/XL Bullies are very rarely well bred and reared dogs.
The ridiculous situation in this country is that dogs are being seized and destroyed just because they 'look' anything like a pit bull, even if they are actual breeds or known crosses, without any evidence of them having shown aggression to anyone.
I don't believe people should be able to buy any of these dogs on the open market, yet they are freely advertised online and people buy them thinking they can make lots of money breeding on from them. They have neither the knowledge or intelligence to control or train them and so they become dangerous as they are in the wrong hands and for the wrong reasons. I also think there should be a ban on keeping certain dogs in 'social housing' which is where a lot of these tragic incidents happen and the parents should be prosecuted as they would be if they had a loaded gun in the house.
The ridiculous situation in this country is that dogs are being seized and destroyed just because they 'look' anything like a pit bull, even if they are actual breeds or known crosses, without any evidence of them having shown aggression to anyone.
I don't believe people should be able to buy any of these dogs on the open market, yet they are freely advertised online and people buy them thinking they can make lots of money breeding on from them. They have neither the knowledge or intelligence to control or train them and so they become dangerous as they are in the wrong hands and for the wrong reasons. I also think there should be a ban on keeping certain dogs in 'social housing' which is where a lot of these tragic incidents happen and the parents should be prosecuted as they would be if they had a loaded gun in the house.
""My dog would hate a muzzle" That encapsulates the whole problem - the owners anthropomorphise their little darlings, treating them as humans"
and that encapsulates the whole problem of opinions from people who clearly have zero understanding of animals at all or how they should be treated. Knowing a dog won't like being muzzled is not anthropomorphism, unless you think that word also means that it's a silly human trait to think a bear or tiger wouldn't like to be caged or any of the other horrific things humans do to animals.
The enforced wearing of muzzles in public would probably have zero impact on these terrible cases and verges on cruel in my view. Most attacks do not happen in public and many owners couldn't care less about laws anyway..
These attacks are a grave problem and they need some serious thought and solutions put forward. Muzzling isn't one of them.
and that encapsulates the whole problem of opinions from people who clearly have zero understanding of animals at all or how they should be treated. Knowing a dog won't like being muzzled is not anthropomorphism, unless you think that word also means that it's a silly human trait to think a bear or tiger wouldn't like to be caged or any of the other horrific things humans do to animals.
The enforced wearing of muzzles in public would probably have zero impact on these terrible cases and verges on cruel in my view. Most attacks do not happen in public and many owners couldn't care less about laws anyway..
These attacks are a grave problem and they need some serious thought and solutions put forward. Muzzling isn't one of them.
Sorry if someone has already posted this, but it happened again in London and from what I can make out, there was no sign of the owner of the dog.
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Corby some of those dogs are taken from their owners and kept locked up for years without their owners knowing where they are. A few are eventually proven/agreed to not be pit bull types, but most end up being put down. There is also a scheme where some are allowed to be kept by their owners, subject to certain restrictions eg muzzled in public, neutered, insured. Some owners have been prosecuted and the dogs subsequently put down if they remove the muzzle for instance in their vehicle after a walk, or to give them a drink.
//the owners anthropomorphise their little darling//
Canary.... anything but. I'm kind of even at a loss, of how this compares with treating humans tbh. I have 5 dogs- that I adore- and treating them like humans would be abusive and insane... they are dogs- far more important and more reliable than most humans, and a different species.
Andy, no surprise, I entirely disagree with you too.... except for //the vast majority of dogs live happily in their pack, and stay in their position.
But that's luck// etc
It's actually around 40.000 years of deliberate breeding and interactions with humans- we have literally made them into how we want.
How anyone can say it isn't our fault- when we breed them, put them into unsuitable places they can't handle, and then blame the dog- pretty much is like blaming a gun or a car. They have no choice... and I would be amazed tbh, if stats say they are more dangerous than people.
Canary.... anything but. I'm kind of even at a loss, of how this compares with treating humans tbh. I have 5 dogs- that I adore- and treating them like humans would be abusive and insane... they are dogs- far more important and more reliable than most humans, and a different species.
Andy, no surprise, I entirely disagree with you too.... except for //the vast majority of dogs live happily in their pack, and stay in their position.
But that's luck// etc
It's actually around 40.000 years of deliberate breeding and interactions with humans- we have literally made them into how we want.
How anyone can say it isn't our fault- when we breed them, put them into unsuitable places they can't handle, and then blame the dog- pretty much is like blaming a gun or a car. They have no choice... and I would be amazed tbh, if stats say they are more dangerous than people.
pixie - // Andy, no surprise, I entirely disagree with you too.... except for //the vast majority of dogs live happily in their pack, and stay in their position.
But that's luck// etc
It's actually around 40.000 years of deliberate breeding and interactions with humans- we have literally made them into how we want.
How anyone can say it isn't our fault- when we breed them, put them into unsuitable places they can't handle, and then blame the dog- pretty much is like blaming a gun or a car. They have no choice... and I would be amazed tbh, if stats say they are more dangerous than people. //
On reflection, I can see the accuracy of your point.
Dogs do as they do, as I posted, but as you say, it is absolutely the fault of successive owners who create artificial environments for them, that contributes to the behaviour of dogs that lead to the increasing number of tragedies we are reading about on a daily basis.
But that's luck// etc
It's actually around 40.000 years of deliberate breeding and interactions with humans- we have literally made them into how we want.
How anyone can say it isn't our fault- when we breed them, put them into unsuitable places they can't handle, and then blame the dog- pretty much is like blaming a gun or a car. They have no choice... and I would be amazed tbh, if stats say they are more dangerous than people. //
On reflection, I can see the accuracy of your point.
Dogs do as they do, as I posted, but as you say, it is absolutely the fault of successive owners who create artificial environments for them, that contributes to the behaviour of dogs that lead to the increasing number of tragedies we are reading about on a daily basis.
Thank you :-) while they are all more individual (literally) than we are... I think an ignorance, of what your own breed/s of dogs' genetic purpose is, is often the biggest mistake.
An elderly chihuahua with arthritis,might well work with an older person in a flat. A Boxer puppy, wouldn't.
We also have a bit of a moral pressure, imo, of "adopt, don't shop"- but background will make a difference- and mistreated animals may well be better with experienced people, who don't have small children.
Imo- you need the right "match".
An elderly chihuahua with arthritis,might well work with an older person in a flat. A Boxer puppy, wouldn't.
We also have a bit of a moral pressure, imo, of "adopt, don't shop"- but background will make a difference- and mistreated animals may well be better with experienced people, who don't have small children.
Imo- you need the right "match".
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