ChatterBank0 min ago
Getting Brexit Done (Still)
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"Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has said."
Not that he's unbiased or anything. Or has ever been reported making any sense.
If this renegotiated post-Brexit relationship still results in European courts meddling in UK affairs then no reasonable person will accept it. It has to be dead in the water,as the saying goes.
And this dual channel nonsense. If the so called green channel is identical for moving goods as it is for, say, moving goods from Scotland to England, or from England to Wales, then as that means it doesn't really exist it is worth considering. But as the EU should perform their own darned checks not expect others to do it for them, that so cslled red channel is more controversial.
If the leaks are correct this has the potential for a massive split of those who have UK interest at heart and those who wish the UK ill.
Not that he's unbiased or anything. Or has ever been reported making any sense.
If this renegotiated post-Brexit relationship still results in European courts meddling in UK affairs then no reasonable person will accept it. It has to be dead in the water,as the saying goes.
And this dual channel nonsense. If the so called green channel is identical for moving goods as it is for, say, moving goods from Scotland to England, or from England to Wales, then as that means it doesn't really exist it is worth considering. But as the EU should perform their own darned checks not expect others to do it for them, that so cslled red channel is more controversial.
If the leaks are correct this has the potential for a massive split of those who have UK interest at heart and those who wish the UK ill.
The NI Protocol sacrifices the integrity of the UK's single market in order to preserve that of the EU's single market. And that was, and always will be, an utter disgrace.
If the EU believes its single market will be contaminated by goods moving from GB to NI then it is up to the EU to find ways to preserve it (bearing in mind that the preservation of the Good Friday Agreement - which provides for a borderless Ireland - is a fundamental part of the Brexit leaving deal). It's time to stop pusyfooting around with the Euromaniacs. They should bear in mind that neither the UK nor Ireland has any intention of imposing a border on the island of Ireland. As well as that, as far as I am aware, the EU has no authority to do so. So let them sort their problem out with all that in mind.
If the EU believes its single market will be contaminated by goods moving from GB to NI then it is up to the EU to find ways to preserve it (bearing in mind that the preservation of the Good Friday Agreement - which provides for a borderless Ireland - is a fundamental part of the Brexit leaving deal). It's time to stop pusyfooting around with the Euromaniacs. They should bear in mind that neither the UK nor Ireland has any intention of imposing a border on the island of Ireland. As well as that, as far as I am aware, the EU has no authority to do so. So let them sort their problem out with all that in mind.
It'll all be sorted soon and then some will be pleased and some won't. So, prepare for celebration drinks or whatever it is that one is supposed to 'suck up.'
Whichever way things go, there'll still be lots of fun to be had on AB for those whose day isn't made without some righteous indignation about something or other.
Whichever way things go, there'll still be lots of fun to be had on AB for those whose day isn't made without some righteous indignation about something or other.
I can't see that this will come off if it hinges on the EU having any say on trade rules in N. Ireland at all. I believe that there is an intention to offer the DUP a seat on any discussions if a point of EU law is involved (I forget where I read it). I really don't think that that will hack it, sorry. The Act of Union is very specific about foreign influence/interference. That Act can't be messed with in any way without threatening the Union - and that isn't going to happen. If Sunak tries it - he's a dead man walking (which I think he is already, actually).
NJ’s understanding of things such as import tariffs (to protect local production) seems limited.
Imagine that the EU has a 25% import tariff to protect their large widget manufacturing operation from subsidised widgets produced in the Far-East. Within Europe, widget buyers could buy locally manufacturer widgets or buy them from the Far-East with a 25% import tariff.
If the EU accepts NJ’s proposal, then GB could remove any widget import tariffs which would allow importers to import widgets to GB and then on to the EU (via the Irish North/South border) with no tariffs – completely undermining EU import tariffs.
Perhaps NJ can explain (under his proposal), how the EU is to preserve widget import taxes in the above scenario (or for that matter, the importation of goods that did not meet EU minimum safety standards). Maybe he will propose an artificial border between GB and NI in the Irish Sea.
Whatever happened to Boris’s oven-ready Brexit?
Imagine that the EU has a 25% import tariff to protect their large widget manufacturing operation from subsidised widgets produced in the Far-East. Within Europe, widget buyers could buy locally manufacturer widgets or buy them from the Far-East with a 25% import tariff.
If the EU accepts NJ’s proposal, then GB could remove any widget import tariffs which would allow importers to import widgets to GB and then on to the EU (via the Irish North/South border) with no tariffs – completely undermining EU import tariffs.
Perhaps NJ can explain (under his proposal), how the EU is to preserve widget import taxes in the above scenario (or for that matter, the importation of goods that did not meet EU minimum safety standards). Maybe he will propose an artificial border between GB and NI in the Irish Sea.
Whatever happened to Boris’s oven-ready Brexit?
//NJ’s understanding of things such as import tariffs (to protect local production) seems limited.//
No it isn’t. I understand the EU’s protectionist rackets (sorry, “procedures”) perfectly. But it isn’t the UK’s responsibility to protect the EU’s rackets from incursion.
//Perhaps NJ can explain (under his proposal), how the EU is to preserve widget import taxes in the above scenario (or for that matter, the importation of goods that did not meet EU minimum safety standards).//
No NJ can’t. I’ve absolutely no idea how they can achieve that. But not only is it not my responsibility to find a solution. It is not the responsibility of the UK government to do so either. It is the EU that wants its market protected, so it is for the EU to come up with a solution. Since nobody has any intention of imposing a border in Ireland and since to impose one in the Irish Sea interferes in the internal affairs of the UK (which is contrary to the UN’s founding charter) I suggest they have a problem.
Unfortunately Mr Sunak seems quite prepared to see a part of the UK treated differently to the rest of it and also subject it to the jurisdiction of a foreign court in order to solve the EU’s problem for them. Mr Sunak would make a half decent carpet salesman, but that, I would suggest, is about the limit of his capabilities.
No it isn’t. I understand the EU’s protectionist rackets (sorry, “procedures”) perfectly. But it isn’t the UK’s responsibility to protect the EU’s rackets from incursion.
//Perhaps NJ can explain (under his proposal), how the EU is to preserve widget import taxes in the above scenario (or for that matter, the importation of goods that did not meet EU minimum safety standards).//
No NJ can’t. I’ve absolutely no idea how they can achieve that. But not only is it not my responsibility to find a solution. It is not the responsibility of the UK government to do so either. It is the EU that wants its market protected, so it is for the EU to come up with a solution. Since nobody has any intention of imposing a border in Ireland and since to impose one in the Irish Sea interferes in the internal affairs of the UK (which is contrary to the UN’s founding charter) I suggest they have a problem.
Unfortunately Mr Sunak seems quite prepared to see a part of the UK treated differently to the rest of it and also subject it to the jurisdiction of a foreign court in order to solve the EU’s problem for them. Mr Sunak would make a half decent carpet salesman, but that, I would suggest, is about the limit of his capabilities.
So NJ has come up with a solution to the NI protocol issue – but accepts he cannot explain how it would work; NJ should become a politician.
Sunak is putting his neck on the line, suggesting a solution will be announced soon, with a 3 line whip on Tory MPs being in Westminster on Monday.
I think part of the solution (if announced by Sunak) will include giving the DUP a bung of a few billion pounds.
Sunak is putting his neck on the line, suggesting a solution will be announced soon, with a 3 line whip on Tory MPs being in Westminster on Monday.
I think part of the solution (if announced by Sunak) will include giving the DUP a bung of a few billion pounds.
It’s extraordinary to me that some seem not to want an agreement.
These are the inhabitants of Brexit-Cuckoo land. Amongst them are the DUP, who support Brexit apparently in theory but no practical implementation of it.
These are the people who will be the undoing of Brexit.
Sunak must stand up to them
These are the inhabitants of Brexit-Cuckoo land. Amongst them are the DUP, who support Brexit apparently in theory but no practical implementation of it.
These are the people who will be the undoing of Brexit.
Sunak must stand up to them
“The EU comprises 27 countries, so a border between 2 of them is no problem”
I think you are confusing land borders and trade borders. The EU has a trade border with most of the ROW. The UK has chosen to be on the outside of that border. But doesn’t want a trade border within Ireland.
It’s a circle that cannot be squared, and cannot be accommodated without compromise on all sides
I think you are confusing land borders and trade borders. The EU has a trade border with most of the ROW. The UK has chosen to be on the outside of that border. But doesn’t want a trade border within Ireland.
It’s a circle that cannot be squared, and cannot be accommodated without compromise on all sides
//But doesn’t want a trade border within Ireland.
It’s a circle that cannot be squared, and cannot be accommodated without compromise on all sides//
Then whose responsibility do you suggest it is to devise a solution? The UK is perfectly happy with a borderless Ireland. From what I understand, the same goes for Ireland. It is only their EU masters who insist on there being some form of trade barrier between the UK and the EU.
The UK needed to compromise to get a Brexit "deal" arranged with the EU (i.e. to continue trading in a pragmatic fashion, as most normal trading partners do). But it is quite clear that the rest of the deal is not working particularly well (evidence ynnafymmi's post @07:32 and others) which was a stone cold certainty anyway. So since that is the case, what incentive is there for the UK to compromise?
It’s a circle that cannot be squared, and cannot be accommodated without compromise on all sides//
Then whose responsibility do you suggest it is to devise a solution? The UK is perfectly happy with a borderless Ireland. From what I understand, the same goes for Ireland. It is only their EU masters who insist on there being some form of trade barrier between the UK and the EU.
The UK needed to compromise to get a Brexit "deal" arranged with the EU (i.e. to continue trading in a pragmatic fashion, as most normal trading partners do). But it is quite clear that the rest of the deal is not working particularly well (evidence ynnafymmi's post @07:32 and others) which was a stone cold certainty anyway. So since that is the case, what incentive is there for the UK to compromise?
