Should The Guardian Have Apologised For Cartoon ?

[Gromit]

The paper has apologised for a cartoon it published and removed it from its archive, after protests from jewish groups. They say the depiction of Richard Sharp who resigned as BBC Chair is anti semitic.

https://e3.365dm.com/23/04/2048x1152/skynews-richard-sharp-cartoon_6137797.png?20230429153627

[William51]

I cannot see anything anti-semitic, but if anyone was offended the Guardian was right to apologise.

[andy-hughes]

William - // I cannot see anything anti-semitic, but if anyone was offended the Guardian was right to apologise. //

You say 'If anyone was offended ...' and I believe that in our increasingly confrontational and hyper-sensitive times, that approach is a slippery slope.

You can find someone to be offended about literally anything if you search hard enough and wait long enough, and both those conditions are minimised in our cyber-connected world.

There has to be some lines drawn somewhere, or else complete chaos will ensue.

By definition, cartoons, especially political cartoons, are entirely designed to provoke reaction right across the scale from amusement to outrage.

If enough people are seriously upset, then there are grounds for a re-think and potentially an apology.

But to simply operate a system where one person being 'offended' sets an apology mechanism in place, is completely unworkable.

As I said, lines have to be drawn, and the sensible majority can be relied on to set a standard, and the hysterical minority, who make the most noise, must be gently ignored until they go away.

[William51]

I agree Andy, there is too much pandering to minor causes and people taking offence. We had a fine history of cutting cartoons and satire but it is being lost.

[MissTerious2]

That cartoon is just plain horrible. I agree with Rosetta.

[andy-hughes]

MissT - // That cartoon is just plain horrible. //

I think, as a political cartoon, that was entirely the point.

[MissTerious2]

Not in the least amusing. I've never heard of the cartoonist.

[andy-hughes]

MissT - // Not in the least amusing. I've never heard of the cartoonist. //

Political cartoons are not designed to make you laugh, although that can be a standard reaction.

They are designed to make you think, and look at a cynical view of the subject.

[pastafreak]

I'm not sure political cartoons have ever been created to look nice or to make us laugh...they are usually satirical and go for the jugular.

I'd never heard of the squid reference...and I had to hunt for the damn thing in the cartoon. I then googled squid as a trope and came across an article about how they, and other multi armed creatures of the deep are portrayed. Apparently squids are "all brawn and *no brain*".

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StealthyCephalopod

[pastafreak]

You werent there when I started typing, Andy.

[ynnafymmi]

@12.57.Some might say or hoped that anti-semitic cartoons died with the end of Nazi Germany or the fall of the socialist Soviet Union.Seems like the Guardian is carrying on with the tradition.

[Peter Pedant]

well, here are some cartoons from Jerusalem
and none have exaggerated features of anyone

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/daily-cartoon

Times had BBC2 test card with girl as blonde mophead thick red lips with her hand stuck up the doll who says
I am not conflicted...

[jno]

in my relentless pursuit of facts, I have measured up the size of Sharp's nose in the Guardian's photo and in the Guardian's cartoon.

As far as I can see (the cartoon version is slightly obscured by Sunak's big nose) they're the same, in relation to the size of his head. The cartoonist hasn't exaggerated it at all.

By contrast, here's an actual Nazi caricature from Der Stürmer

https://cepr.org/sites/default/files/styles/flexible_wysiwyg/public/image/FromMay2014/voth15marchfig5.png?itok=yUhmyneH

Now that's what I call caricature; and it's a caricature of a whole race. Rowson's cartoon is a depiction of one person, with the nose the right size.

[andy-hughes]

It's interesting that no-one has ventured an opinion on the savage drawing of Mr Johnson, who does not come out of this with any dignity at all - but no-one seems to have noticed that.

Perhaps because he is not part of a minority, his caricaturing is acceptable?

[ynnafymmi]

Targeting Jews or targeting Johnson,A-H.The Jews get it in the neck every time from the Labour Party Corbynites.Anti-semitism used to be a right wing trope,now it is a left-wing trope.

[jno]

"Boris" and "dignity" don't go well in the same sentence. But yes, caricature of politicians, and royals, goes back to the 1700s, whereas religious caricature - even of individual adherents - is no longer seen as very nice. (Popes used to be depicted as the very devil; these days, even the one who'd been in the Hitler Youth got a free pass.) But as others have pointed out, the depiction of Sharp is barely a caricature at all

[ynnafymmi]

You sound as if you are defending anti-semitism,jno.You arent an anti-semite are you?

[douglas9401]

Jesus, talk about a dog with a bone.

[ynnafymmi]

Laugh a minute on here Duggie just now.Laugh a minute....

[Ellipsis]

It's complicated, isn't it?

For example, if it had been a Muslim cartoon, rather than a Jewish one, would that be a different reaction?

And was this even a Jewish cartoon, or - given that it also includes Johnson and Sunak - a cartoon about greed?

Ultimately, is it possible to make a cartoon, a caricature, about greed if one out of the three subjects in the image is a Jew? Or a Muslim?

[Peter Pedant]

Author Dave Rich, an expert in anti-Semitism, said images of squid have often been used to depict the conspiracy theory that 'Jewish forces' have their tentacles wrapped around society and power."

no or yes, squid is applied specifically to Goldman Sacks as a "blood sucking vampire squid which sticks its funnel into anything that smells like money".

Boris atop a pile of poo-poo - dung heap - - even if he wore an Eton collar, or wore a Oxford Blazer, wd not be surprising

There IS a pigs head sticking out of the pile.

and someone asked about Islam - yeah do it wrong, and you get shot or your head hacked off