Shame On Rishi Sunak And The Tory Party.

[gulliver1]

Taking the cap of Banker Bonuses allowing millionaires to bury their snouts deeper into the money trough.While more than a million childeren are living in poverty with parents unable to afford to feed them.The Joseph  Rowntree Foundation found the 574,000 were supported by foodbanks last year .9

[newmodarmy]

Of course, andy-hughes, but capping bonuses just in case a few undeserving ones are handed out is not the right way. Are you saying we should cap bonuses in all areas in case  companies reward failure?

It's primarily a matter for management and shareholders to ensure money is spent wisely.  

[bazwillrun]

another troll post from somebody who claims he doesnt live here but is obsessed by one of our political partys...very odd, but hey, no accounting for losers and whats going on in their brains or or in this case lack of 

[naomi24]

I'll listen to people complaining about bonuses when they convince me that in a similar position they'd turn it down because their conscience  wouldn't allow them to do otherwise.  Until then I'll regard all criticism as envy - as I always have.

[Khandro]

'Give a man a fish & you give him a meal, teach him how to fish & you give him meals for life.' So goes the old saying.

Teach a person to cook & they may not need all that pre-packaged, low quality stuff from foodbanks.

[gulliver1]

Naomi  13.58 "Load of rubbish from you as usual"

[andy-hughes]

NMA - //

Of course, andy-hughes, but capping bonuses just in case a few undeserving ones are handed out is not the right way. Are you saying we should cap bonuses in all areas in case  companies reward failure? //

No, I'm saying that 'bonuses' should not be a part of a remuneration package at all.

The vast majority of workers in any occupation are paid the rate for their job, and receive no extras for simply doing the job they are employed and contracted to do.

For some reason, the banking section has allowed the 'bonus' culture to start, and ramp up.

As I said, and I will repeat again, bonuses to 'attract the right calibre', but manifestly fail to do so, as exampled by the crash of 2008, should not be paid under any circumstances.

But they are, and conitnue to be, with the Tories simply adding to the attraction by allowing bonuses to be open-ended.

I did my job for forty-three years, I was never given, or expected a 'bonus', I was paid for what I did.

An executive running one arm of the company was sacked after less than twelve months for leading his section into debt.

The 'bonus' he was paid to go away would take someone at my grade more than twenty-five years to earn for doing my job, failure to complete which would have led to my dismissal, without share bonuses, and a gold-plated pension.

I have no problem with people being paid a lot more than me, as long as they earn it, and are sacked if they don't, without 'rewards' to send them on their merry way.

// It's primarily a matter for management and shareholders to ensure money is spent wisely. //

Management who have to have signed up to the current system in order to be in a position to change it - hardly likely since they benfit from it as well!

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //

'Give a man a fish & you give him a meal, teach him how to fish & you give him meals for life.' So goes the old saying.

Teach a person to cook & they may not need all that pre-packaged, low quality stuff from foodbanks. //

Spoken with your proven inability to think anything except that complex situations have simple solutions.

[Khandro]

Girls used to be taught how to cook at school (and by their mothers) but I think first-wave feminism put a stop to all that.  

[newmodarmy]

Andy- have you never been aware of performance related pay? For the last 25 years my employer had a performance management scheme which led to an annual bonus payment and also determined the size of an individual's annual salary review. The scheme took account of overall business objectives and results too, so if the company had a poor year the bonus was much smaller and only paid to those who exceeded targets. John Lewis was another employer who did this.

It's the real world for many employees in the private sector, and even in some public sector. 

 

[newmodarmy]

Andy, I think you're out of touch with practices in many businesses. Have you never worked in, or known people who worked in, sales, investments, or any job with performance targets.  

If the management is wasting money or rewarding failure then the shareholders or business owners should be overseeing that- although the business won't survive long anyway if it wastes too much.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - // Girls used to be taught how to cook at school (and by their mothers) but I think first-wave feminism put a stop to all that. //

Your ignorance of education remains boundless.

It was not 'first wave feminism' that stopped cookery being taught in schools.

It is still taught today, although the time devoted to it is reduced because of the constaints of the National Curriculum.

As for cookery being taught at home - that was back in the days when the majority of mothers stayed at home, and had the time to show their children how to cook - that situation has changed because of the ecconimic changes resulting in far more mothers working full time.

I understand your yearning for earlier times, but at least understand why things were not as they were.

[andy-hughes]

newmodarmy - // 

Andy, I think you're out of touch with practices in many businesses. Have you never worked in, or known people who worked in, sales, investments, or any job with performance targets. //

I have.

But that is not what I am addressing.

You and I know perfectly well that multiple CEO's in banks and financial institutions were culpable for the financial crash of 2008, and a large number of them were paid off, with the bonuses and share options intact, even though they had driven the nation to the verge of bankruptcy.

That is not 'performance related pay', that is payment for failure. 

// If the management is wasting money or rewarding failure then the shareholders or business owners should be overseeing that- although the business won't survive long anyway if it wastes too much. //

Shareholders hold no real power, the structures are in place, protected by the higher management who benefit directly from them.

And as for the banks 'not surviving long ...' they simply passed into state ownership, and the bill was picked up by the tax payers.

The system is corrupt, and remains so, but to try and explain it away as 'performance related' is to assume that I am naive about the way companies operate.

I am not.

[newmodarmy]

Hymie , you said: '' If I was an investment banker nearing my retirement, why not take some massive gamble with the bank’s money – if it pays off I’ll be rolling in even more retirement money.  If it fails spectacularly, what do I care that the bank goes bust or has to be bailed out by the tax-payer."

It's up to the companies to have proper checks and compliance policies; and maybe rules about pensions being witheld in certain disciplinary cases. I thought you valued the importance of Compliance with policies and regulations.

 

[newmodarmy]

Clearly,andy, you don't fully understand how the financial crash occured across the world and how a much needed tightening of compliance was implemented.

Besides, you're talking about rewarding failure, which can happen regardless of bonus caps, and using that argue against rewarding success.  The idea of a bonus is to reward success. Isn't that what we want?

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

[newmodarmy]

I'll let you have the last word andy - I've no more to add. There's no right or wrong answers on this- just different opinions based on experience. 

[andy-hughes]

NMA - //

Clearly,andy, you don't fully understand how the financial crash occured across the world and how a much needed tightening of compliance was implemented. //

I have given no evidence whatsoever of my understanding of how the crash happened, so you are in no position to assess my understanding of it, much less offer a judgement of any description.

// Besides, you're talking about rewarding failure, which can happen regardless of bonus caps, and using that argue against rewarding success.  The idea of a bonus is to reward success. Isn't that what we want? //

Frankly - no.

The bonus culture focuses the minds of receiving exectutives entirely on the ways and means with which they can secure the biggest bonuses they can get, regardless of the impact on the operations of the company.

I speak from direct experience - the company I worked for introduced a bonus system for managers, and overnight, the approach changed from providing a good servce to providing any service as long as it saved money.

Of course, the biggest expenditure in any organisation is its payroll, so wholesale staff cutting began in earnest, and continues today.

Service suffers, bonuses grow.

It's a divisive self-defeating system created and maintained by senior manageers who benefit directly from it.

[bazwillrun]

notice how the the sucker OP stayed out of it once some thinking was required...another classic

[gulliver1]

Andy Hughes @ 15.19 for BA.  Andy you are spot on with that one .

[fender62]

gulliver, having worked probably longer then you have been alive, id say brtiain has become a benefits culture, iv seen it. something for nothing, to the point where it's im entitled, whole swathes of estates on benefits, fake disibility claims abound...girls pumping out kids, who never worked , let alone young men..roaming around like zombies, labour liberals feed off this, it's there voter core, no idea what you do for a living, but labour is not the answer...crikey full of anti semites, islamic purists, fascists commies...= chaos

[fripfrip]

^^        ^^

so true,keep giving people something for nothing and wondering why the next week they bring a mate along with them for more freebies