Where Were The Middle East Experts In The Past Ten Years?

[sp1814]

Those people who (very rightly) condemn the terrorist atrocites carried out by Hamas two weeks ago...I'm genuinely in hearing this - what were your thoughts on the Palestinians, the West Bank and Gaza up until a fortnight ago?

What do you think should have happened to prevent this war?

[youngmafbog]

For me, and I think a fair few there was much sympathy for the Palesinians.

What should have happened?  Well (very simplistic) two States, which was happening, but then Hamas (and Iran) dont want that, they want conflict or there would be no place for them.

[youngmafbog]

Just out of interest, who are the 'Experts' you refer to?

[andy-hughes]

Tony Blyer was the 'Middle East Peace Envoy'.

Pass me my irony klaxon - 

WHAAAAARRRRPPPPPP!!!

[royfromaus]

Palestinians should have risen against...Hamas

[sp1814]

youngmafbog

Those who seem to be shouting loudest now that the stuff has hit the fan.

Two states? Were the Israeli government up for that? Were they conceding land in the West Bank? I though that was a huge no-no for Netanyahu

[sp1814]

royfromaus

And then what? How would that resolve the land dispute?

More info needed. I'm genuinely interested to hear ideas because this has been going on since I was a kid and I don't think there will ever be a resolution (unlike Northern Ireland).

[royfromaus]

2005 Was their big chance to prove their salt

Unfortunately Hamas used the salt on the rank and file Palestinian.

 

[youngmafbog]

//Those who seem to be shouting loudest now that the stuff has hit the fan.//

Ah, so this thread is simply a dig at those that dont fall into your left wing mantra.  Why am I not surprised. I'll leace the thread alone now.

//Two states? Were the Israeli government up for that? Were they conceding land in the West Bank? I though that was a huge no-no for Netanyahu//

Yes, like I said it was simplistic what I wrote the problem is very complicated but countries like Saudi were trying to help in there too.  Maybe it wouldnt happen but you asked what I would like to see.

[naomi24]

Few have listened but I've been shouting for years - and I haven't changed my mind.

[ynnafymmi]

Been at any Gay Pride rallies in the Middle East lately,sp?

[Peter Pedant]

Just out of interest, who are the 'Experts' you refer to?

high ups in the foreign office and other ministries  are called mandarins. ( to heaven born etc , lots of sir, big pensions)

mandarins come in various flavours, and the  arab specialists were called camels

so..... what happened to the camels

1956 - Crown was advised by an ex Camel  who was fired over suez. DOnt invade Egypt he advised. Mac knifed him.

Bliar - deposition of Sadam, invasion of Iraq  - the camels were excluded as everyone knew that they would advise against it. If you recollect the  govt of post -war Iraq was a disaster - no camels to direct matters.....

so the  camels are there and largely ignored

such is life: someone asked

Note this is a post  on arabic speakers in the foreign office, just in case a mad wandering  mod thinks it is something else.

te

[ynnafymmi]

@23.30."The sexual life of a camel is harder than anyone thinks"....Is that where you are at Peter?

[Untitled]

bibi netanyahu's government has been propping up hamas for years. Israeli newspaper Haaretz found that as recently as 2019 he said 

"“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy"

nobody from his office or party has issued any denial of this. Yitzak Ghal who is an israeli expert on hamas finances published details on how this was done in the jerusalem post...

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-769721

he found that some three quarters of hamas funding channels were supervised or controlled by israel.

israel has been propping hamas up for years in addition to assisting its creation in the 1980s... the reason they have been doing this is because  netanyahu's government disagrees with the oslo accords and does not wish for gaza and the palestinian authority to be under the same government. effectively they accepted the previous mini wars with hamas as the price for doing this... embraced them in fact because of the political gain they made from them. they cared not a jot about casualties on either sides resulting from this policy.

what i have written above has been expressed in the times of israel, the jerusalem post and haaretz... it is not a fringe opinion in israel and it is certainly not antisemitism. the government of israel poured money and support into hamas for its own despicable purposes. it wanted to sideline the palestinian authority and keep palestine divided. that government carries a lot of responsibility for this war and for the innocent lives destroyed on october 7th. if they had supported the palestinian authority and treated it as a partner instead of sidelining it and worked with it to restore gaza to PA control then this war would not have happened. they didn't and you reap what you sow. 

 

[1ozzy]

//but I've been shouting for years//

Yep, you sure have Naomi.

Shouting about lots of agendas, then changing sides when it suits.

[naomi24]

You're an unhappy soul, 1ozzy.  Sad.

[1ozzy]

Oh, alas poor me.

 

[Khandro]

There is compelling view that it wouldn't have come about at all if the Israelis had not been so complacent in trusting in their sophisticated security arrangements - 'Iron Dome' &  surveillance techniques etc.  

What they didn't seem to allow for was a simple, primitive, early morning mass insurgence by the use of a bulldozer and wire cutters ! 

[Peter Pedant]

//but I've been shouting for years//

yeah I thought this was rare self-realisation in a mod

but woe is me: no one reads me and those that do, dont understand. Woe is me again. Miser Petre ( Latin again)

(yes yes I realised there is an internal inconsistency, but this is AB for chrissakes)