Declaration For Biological Reality

[Deskdiary]

https://declarationforbiologicalreality.org/ ;

I've signed.

Will you?

[Ellipsis]

> men, women, trans men and trans women

If you like. Not very clear though. Try this: is a trans man a man, a woman, both or neither?

[Ellipsis]

> If they have separate categories specifically for transgender people I wonder if there will be enough entering to make a competition?

That's the same problem as Paralympics, and it's been dealt with in some way or other over years now.

[ToraToraTora]

Real gender dysphoria is extremely rare. Most of the ones creating all the fuss are either narcissist attention seekers who have discovered the world is full of gullible trobiscites that enable and empower a new fascism for them or carp sportsment who have worked out that they can compete against girls if they make the right noises.. No doubt genuine cases have got on with transitioning and we won't even know about it. Thats how it should be. If someone wants to transition then get on with it quietly and privately don't go round cry bullying the rest of us.

[Ellipsis]

Here's an approach, from  World Rugby:

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender/non-binary

[naomi24]

Ellipsis,   Only those who think they're not what they are seem to need a label to define them.

[Ellipsis]

Not true, Naomi. For the example above, World Rugby has to define things so that the game can be played "safely and fairly". 

[ClareTG0ld]

// If someone wants to transition then get on with it quietly and privately ... //

No.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, men and women don't need 'defining'.  We all know what a man is and we all know what a woman is and biology backs that up.  

[Countrylover]

I'd like to sign it, but I'll read through it again first.  I have a friend who is going through a bad patch with his 13 year old daughter.  It seems that schools are having a problem now with kids who are jumping on the bandwagon on all this nonsense.  She is basically what we would have called a years tomboy and now  doubting her biological gender. 

[Countrylover]

Called years ago!

[pastafreak]

I've only just started reading it...and will most likely read several times before making a decision. I do find the way children are being influenced or pressured extremely worrying. As with voting and driving, this needs to be a choice made as an adult.

[Old_Geezer]

"If you like. Not very clear though. Try this: is a trans man a man, a woman, both or neither?"

 

As I understand it a transman is a women who can't accept the fact as she feels she should be male and opts to live as if she was one.

 

I think I  have that right but calling folk who aren't men, "men" is confusing unless you concentrate each time.

[Ellipsis]

> As I understand it a transman is a women

In that case, should "she" (your language) play whatever sport "she" wants as a "woman"?

Or is it better for people to compete with other people that are like themselves?

[ClareTG0ld]

// ... biology backs that up ... //

Biology has, in fact, in recent years shown that there is more to it than that. What we refer to as biological sex arises from a complex interplay of chromosomes, hormones, and other aspects -- including psychological. It's true, of course, that in the vast majority of people -- 99%, or thereabouts -- all of the various indicators will unambiguously align. But that still leaves room for certainly millions, and most probably tens of millions, of people for whom, for whatever reason, it isn't that simple.

Life is complicated. Biology is too. And that is the reality we should be declaring support for.

[naomi24]

Nonsense.  

[Ellipsis]

Not to mention, it has only been possible to be physically transitioned thanks to very recent science. So of course the language has to cope with that, just as it has in other scientific fields.

[ClareTG0ld]

You'd be welcome to go and browse scientific literature on the subject if you like, Naomi.

Suffice it to say that our understanding of sex, and gender, has developed to appreciate its complexity, rather than the reverse.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis.  No one can be 'physically transitioned' into the opposite sex.  They simply can't.  

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, saying what you want to believe doesn't make it so.  Men are not women and women are not men.

[ClareTG0ld]

Saying what you want to believe, Naomi, doesn't make it so :)