Liver disease

[jedimistress]

I heard of a dog who has liver disease at the age of only 13 months old. Is this normal? Could it have been caused by cruelty or neglect? (Only they are looking to rehome a dog of mine and I am a little apprehensive as one of their dogs has the liver disease at 13 months, their other dog died at 9 months with bleeding to the brain.) They asy they have been unlucky but I am wondering about the liver disease in such a young animal. The dogs were KC registered so obviously very inbred.

[andy-hughes]

Because of in-breeding which is designed to prolong the attractive 'breed' features in dogs, certain biological defects such as liver disease are passed on to pups in the breeding chain.

This may be the reason why this dog has developed problems so early in its life.

[jedimistress]

I thought the inbreeding may have had something to do with it.

[logman]

I can see your point and why you feel apprehensive, but its dificult to ask one stranger to judge another. I would suggest contacting the RSPCA and ask if it would be possible for them to do a home visit, this is done as a matter of cource for rescue dogs.

[Eels]

Liver disease can occur in young animals - often it is a congenital condition (ie one which is present from birth) that causes liver problems in young animals.

[Eels]

I should add that it's extremely unlikely that a liver problem could be caused by abuse or neglect.

[woofgang]

jedimistress can i take issue with your rather sweeping statement thast all (UK) KC reg dogs are inbred? As with any other breed (or non breed) situations, there are caring, knowledgeable and ethical breeders and those who are not. The lady who bred my dogs (weimaraners) would not consider producing anything but healthy, sound well temperamented dogs. She breeds because she likes the breed and wants the best for it and I reckon that its marginally easier to adopt a human baby than it is to get her to sell you a puppy. Obviously you have had bad experiences but please don't tar everyone with that brush!!

[jedimistress]

My question was a health related one. I wasn't debating the KC issue. I merely added it to help anyone answer my query. The KC registration system (if inactively) encourages the inbreeding of dogs. I did not say KC breeders are ruthless moneygrabbers or bad people producing unhealthy dogs. I was merely stating that there will be a lot of inbreeding in the dogs due to the very nature of being KC registered.

Under the KC registration system, a dog can only be KC registered if both it's parents are KC registered. The KC bitch can only produce a KC registered litter if she mates with a KC registered dog, then their litter is KC, then, and so on and so on. So it is self explanatory to see the inbreeding is encouraged by the dogs having KC certificates. It doesn't take higher maths to work this out. The gene pool is very small.

[lankeela]

jedimistress - you're way off in your theory that KC bred dogs are inbred.

At least with KC registration you know the parentage - if a dog is not registered, and the owner mates it to another dog that is not registered, how would you know if they were brother and sister?

Responsible breeders spend hours studying pedigrees to find combinations that will produce healthy, typical specimens.

All the KC do is register the puppies that these breeders produce. They do not encourage anyone to 'inbreed'.

I have a breed that does have a small gene pool and most breeders take great care to choose mates for their dogs that take account of this and select parents that have great genetic diversity.

[woofgang]

"The dogs were KC registered so obviously very inbred"

there is no obviously about it as lankeela states!!

[spudqueen]

Can liver cancer in humans be caused by cruelty or neglet? I don't think so.

[jedimistress]

It's liver disease, not cancer, & I don't know if it can be caused by neglect in humans, that is why I was asking about the liver disease. I thought perhaps a poor diet, no water supply or something.

Lankeela please reread my post I do not say KC encouraged it, I said the registration system does. I think you would be very niave to think that because the dogs are KC registered that you know the parentage. There are so many scams out there. KC papers changing hands for hundreds of pounds. Registering more pups than were actually in a litter to obtain further papers. Breeding of bitches more than the required amount and pretending the bitch is one of the fictional regsitered dogs, or another bitch who hasn't used her quota.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "All the KC do is register" Yes, all they do is take your money and issue bits of paper to say look my dog is "real". You have no way of knowing the parentage except through DNA checks. The dog could be anyones, there are no checks, just application forms.

I do know about these things as my original question was on behalf of my partner who is a KC registered breeder of Dogues de Bordeaux. He is looking to rehome his last 2 bitches and was apprehensive when advised their previous 2 had died before the age of 2. Even he knows most of the dogues in the UK come down from the same few.

He has people knocking on his door offering money to say his dog is their sire. He's been offered money to enlarge the litter and pass the papers on. He never agrees to it.

He knows of one impotent Jack Russell who was even fathering litters after it's death!

The system is wide open to abuse, and is abused. Sorry if you can't, or refuse to see this. Sorry if anyone thinks their status symbols may be tarnished.

Also sorry my question or comments angered anyone, it was a genuine question with some backround.

[Pajama Girl]

The KC is very active in promoting the responsible breeding of purebred dogs.

Inbreeding is discouraged through education and example. Inbreeding is defined as breeding two individuals with too close a pedigree and therefore concentrating recessive genes. Line breeding is the breeding of individuals with a common ancestor at 4 to 5 generations back. Responsible breeders with experience and perhaps a mentor in the hobby should undertake to line breed. Outcrossing is the breeding of purebred dogs with little or no pedigree overlap. Outcrossing strengthens the bloodline and introduces variability to breed characteristics.

Breeders who find that a recessive gene has entered their kennel are encouraged to alter the effected dog and have no more litters.

Serious KC purebred fanciers are always interested in keeping the breed healthy.

Just because a dog is KC registered does not make it obvious it is inbred. To make such a sweeping statement shows a lack of education or a willful point of view that is intractable to information. Please excuse my bluntness.

[lankeela]

The bottom line is that if I had any doubts whatsoever these people would not have a dog from me.