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Iran - Nuclear Weapons?
If Iran where to be allowed to develop a Nuclear Weapon do you think they would be able to resist using it, probably on Isreal or even the "great satan"?
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No comment! We obviously have differences of opinion. You Ward Minter are obviously an expert who knows Iran and Iranians are not intelligent and earlier suggesting that a country with a population of 70m should be nuked before it is too late. I wonder what would have been your reaction if someone suggested to nuke Israel?
I have no problem to respect other people's views but when you talk about nuking Iran as is suggested by Ward-Minter earlier, that would get me started. And the guy considers himself a liberal.
Iran, unlike Iraq has never attacked or used chemical weapons against another country. Iraq has used it gainst Iran thanks to the West supplying the materials.
Yes, there are many Iranians here, who want to have a better life, education or they may be here on holiday but there are also irish, jews, arabs, turks, somalians, chinese and other imigrants who also want to have a better life. Some of these countries are probably worse than Iran. Do we go and bomb them?
I did not brag on that Iran is a wonderful place as you claim. All I said was that most of the points you made about that country is baseless and untrue. You said that Iranian women have no relationship outside marriage. Based on what? Your few trips to Middle Eastern countries that did not include Iran and yet you make this a conclusive evidence? Or shall I just put this to your ignorance?
You say the second and third generation arabs in Britain harp on how great they are and diss this country to the point of terrorist attacks. Well, don't you think you are being ignorant? If this is not generalising I wonder other people will call it? Alienating the whole arab community from second and third generations, who live in this country for the crimes they did not commit except a minority few shows your racism towards arabs. Anyway, Iran is not an arab country incase you didn't know.
And for goodness sake stop this jewish paranoia. If your name was jewish, I would never have guessed. Besides, why should that matter? I have known some jewish friends in my life time to never judge them because their name sounded jewish. So don't make yourself a victim.
I am not racist Keyvan. Trust me. I just abhor the Islamic faith. If anybody disagrees with me then it is those who are the fascists.
How can one expect to respect a "religion" that beheads gays and treats women like sh1t.
Oh and why I am here, as I am sooooo ignorant as you keep pointed out, please inform me on the wonderful Ayatollah Khomeini. Tell me he did not kill people in the name of this evil religion. Tell me Islam stood for love in his world.
So basically what you are saying is that you loathe the islamic faith, which suggests to me that you hate all moslems and if anyone disagrees with this statement you will brand them as fascists. It's blatantly obvious that you are disrespecting a large proportion of people. Ok there's alot of things I don't like about jewish faith but I don't and attack my jewish friends because of their faith and attach a cliche.
You know your post reminds me of Bush's infamous statement. "You are either with us or against us". I bet he wished he never said that. Just because I disagree with you are you going to shoot me? Go on make my day.
By the way, what is it with your fascination with Khomeini you seem to be mentioning repeatedly in your posts? I don't see the relevance of this to the above topic. The man died 18 years ago good or bad let it be. It's 2006. Move on. I hope Sharon though will make a good recovery.
Ward. I can't fathom what your point is and to be quite frank I think your ignorance of a religion or Iranian culture for that matter does not help to get any further on this topic other than ranting and insulting with your usual rhetorics.
On your point about stoning, why don't you go and sort out your own mess with palestinians instead of coming here lecturing me about poor human rights records in Iran? Does Jenin massacre ring a bell or should I continue? How many human rights records has Israel violated and doesn't give a damn about it? And spare me the thought by running a parallel between their action and the so called 'War on Terror'. So much for hypocrisy.
On another note... nah. I shall not spend any more time on this.
Whilst it would be nice for all countries to not being reliant on oil for energy needs, the thought of Iran having a nuke is pretty scary.
Firstly, I don't see the Iranin government having enough restraint to not use these weapons....for them to wipe out large areas of Israel in one swipe may get condemnation from around the world, a lot of people in the Middle East would see it as a victory on what is an unfair situation.
Israel gets a great deal of support from the US, without this they would not be in the superior position that they are.
What I would find more worrying is the possibility of the more radical elements of the military in Iran letting one of these weapons 'slip through their fingers' (either through lack of security, or by turning a blind eye) - only to resurface in either UK, or more probably the US.
At the moment the western governments have the luxury of having these weapons to hold over Iran - if Iran does obtain nuclear weapons we're back to the cold war scenario where all it takes is a few crossed words, a few military scraps and a lunatic pressing a button (and this could just as easily be an American pressing the button as an Iranian).
Also bear in mind that a lot of people in Middle East are devoutly religous, and truly beleive in paradise after dying, this can sometimes cloud logic thinking (look at suicide bombers)...the Russians at least relaised that starting a nuclear war would result in total destruction of the world as we knew it, some more radical elements in Middle East may see it as a way of taking out the infidel crusaders and securing a one-way ticket to paradise.
Firstly, I don't see the Iranin government having enough restraint to not use these weapons....for them to wipe out large areas of Israel in one swipe may get condemnation from around the world, a lot of people in the Middle East would see it as a victory on what is an unfair situation.
Israel gets a great deal of support from the US, without this they would not be in the superior position that they are.
What I would find more worrying is the possibility of the more radical elements of the military in Iran letting one of these weapons 'slip through their fingers' (either through lack of security, or by turning a blind eye) - only to resurface in either UK, or more probably the US.
At the moment the western governments have the luxury of having these weapons to hold over Iran - if Iran does obtain nuclear weapons we're back to the cold war scenario where all it takes is a few crossed words, a few military scraps and a lunatic pressing a button (and this could just as easily be an American pressing the button as an Iranian).
Also bear in mind that a lot of people in Middle East are devoutly religous, and truly beleive in paradise after dying, this can sometimes cloud logic thinking (look at suicide bombers)...the Russians at least relaised that starting a nuclear war would result in total destruction of the world as we knew it, some more radical elements in Middle East may see it as a way of taking out the infidel crusaders and securing a one-way ticket to paradise.
Loosehead, sorry to side track your thread if you are still remotely interested.
Alas I have proved my point that Iran is an evil and anti-west country that needs nuking ASAP. If there is so much angst and anger from muslims in this country who has given them a home, an education, a sense of freedom and a culture to be truly proud of, what must the disillusioned feel like in Iran itself?
It beggars belief that there is so much hate and evil in the world all because 1300 years ago some guy climbed a mountain.
Mr Minter, whether you are jewish or not is none of my concern. Unlike you I don't judge a person based on their faith. It's your way of thinking that is troubling. I am proud to be British and pay my taxes to earn a living but I refuse to put up with intolerance and nuking a whole country killing innocent people just because of your lack of understanding. This thread has long been side tracked by this issue but this is the underlying problem to why we are where we are now.
Keyvan.I have counted 18 times you stating (words to the effect of) my ignorance, lack of understanding, lack of knowledge etc. What exactly do I not understand?
I have a sound working knowledge of Iran and a sound working knowledge of it's history. Allah above, I even know that sodomized camels have to be killed (but not eaten). I have read the Koran (though many years ago now).
I hope your anger settles down before you decide to become a terrorist. Maybe you could talk to a Rabbi or a counsellor. I imagine the security forces and the good honest British Govt have some taps on the likes of you already.
If only the world were to be more liberal like me, it would be a safer and nicer place to live.
God bless you Kayvan. X
Ward. Thanks for the joke. Found it quite amusing.
If the govenrment and security have some taps on the likes of me so let it be. As I have said repeatedly I have no respect for people who have no respect for other religions. Here is a few words you have used to describe islam: fascism, evil and needless to say describing the second and third genration arabs in this country as terrorists. I rest my case.
Your "sound working knowledge of Iran" as you have shown through your posts is Chrystal clear. Please don't enlighten us any more.
Since you are such a liberal minded gentleman have you thought about applying for the of Lib Dem post. I hear they may be a vacancy for the likes of you.
God bless the Queen and best of British!
america has just killed a half blind mostly deaf 76 year old man on death row and resuccitated himfrom recent heart attacks so they could kill him the way they saw fit. What a lovely place!
christianity also hates gays and has a huge problem with women, the church has to be the only place left where there is still a huge amount of controversy if a woman wants the same job as a man and everyone seems to think thats alright
NO-ONE should have nuclear weapons. I don't trust anyone in power with them. I'm pretty sure the only reason Bush ahsn't let one go is because he has a huge amount of advisors saying there's really no good spin we can put on that one Mr President.
Did Hiroshima not teach anyone ANYTHING! what happened to non-proliferation, oh hang on, wasn't it us level headed trust worthy western christians who did that!
religious extremism in any faith is scary as hell. differentiating between one person with blind faith and another is useless as neither will listen to reason
christianity also hates gays and has a huge problem with women, the church has to be the only place left where there is still a huge amount of controversy if a woman wants the same job as a man and everyone seems to think thats alright
NO-ONE should have nuclear weapons. I don't trust anyone in power with them. I'm pretty sure the only reason Bush ahsn't let one go is because he has a huge amount of advisors saying there's really no good spin we can put on that one Mr President.
Did Hiroshima not teach anyone ANYTHING! what happened to non-proliferation, oh hang on, wasn't it us level headed trust worthy western christians who did that!
religious extremism in any faith is scary as hell. differentiating between one person with blind faith and another is useless as neither will listen to reason
Er lizzie methinks you are wrong. All religion has its pitfalls but to say Christians hate gays is a trifle sweeping. There are many gay followers.
As far as I am aware there are no Christian countries where you get beaten to death for being gay. Or have a hot poker rammed up your tuppence (like some countries beginning with I and ending in RAN).
Further, your stance on women vrs Christianity. Granted, historically women were second class citizens. But again, I fail to see any Christian countries where women are forced to cover their face in public. Never make eye contact with a man other than her polygamist husband. Are punished by being tortured and killed if they commit adultery and are forced to kill themselves if raped.
Now what contry could I be talking about?
I know of at least five Iranians that lived together with a Jew, as very good supportive friends. What the general public do not seem to take into account is that the propaganda from American/ British politicians is to make you believe just that, they want to justify their own actions. Can I explain that Iranian people speak in a very passionate, poetic and exaggerated manner, different than the cold British whose favourite descriptive word is nice, or flower their sentance with expletives. So in other words when they say death to all Americans they do not really mean all Americans. And as other clever people have stressed, Iranians are very clever, mostly well educated people, and know how to rile America.
There are many Iranians who are happy to live in America and England and may I say that Iran is a very safe and interesting country to live, but because of the 8year war with Iraq (that America helped to create), the economy suffered and so do the people, as the cost of living is very high for them. The regime of cause is against israel because of the atrocities against, fellow muslims, They cannot loose face by not supporting Palestinians over the Israli, bigoted despots. The American CIA have caused much trouble to the stability of Iran for their own ends, so I think Iranians have a right to be anti american and Israeli. As I have mentioned before in other discussions, Persia, Iran have not started any wars since ancient times. I know the next argument is about terrorism, but what nationality were the 9/11 bombers, or the London underground bombers. When do we, or have we heard of actual Iranian Terrorists, actually being involved in any actual terrorism attacks.
Unlike America, will be able to resist using these imaginery nuclear weapons, because they are a very disciplined people because of their religion.
Ward- monger, you are so misinformed, I know many Iranian women and they are treated very well, who have university degrees and cover their heads because they want to and take great pride in their muslim,religion. My iranian husband treats me like a princess, is very polite and respectful, we have been married some 23years. Do you know of any positive benefits of being muslim.?Ramadan is a time when all muslims have to especially think of others and help the needy. Thats one good point dont you think. And I would like to point out that there is a distinction between being gay and performing s0d0my, which the bible also condemns.
I disagree with you and I am a very liberal and tolerant person, I know i am wasting my efforts on you but I felt you needed to get your knowledge updated. Where does your hatred stem from I wonder, did some handsom Muslim, spite you somehow, tread on your toes? Maybe you should have councilling- any kind of hatred is disabilitating and unproductive other than begatting more hatred.
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