Why Do The B B C Keep Saying Israel Suffered A "Defeat" On 7Th Oct?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

"His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history. "

It wasn't fight it was a slaughter of civilians. How can the nation of a terror attrocity be said to have been "defeated"?

Was the USA defeated after 9/11

Spain After Madrid?

UK after 7/7?

Looks like the beeb has its own cabal of terrorist apologists.

[Old_Geezer]

They are simply misspelling a t t a c k.

[Peter Pedant]

didnt churchill or someone say, " it is very difficult to call it a victory if you lose 21 000 men"

Pyrrhic Victory

and a French general " Eef we have another victoire like zat, we will lose the war!"

No, they didnt? OK, it is all right this is AB !

[Mozz71]

It's a strange turn of phrase. "Biggest attack" would be the correct term imho.

[Peter Pedant]

How can the nation of a terror attrocity be said to have been "defeated"? UK after 7/7?

7 July bombings werent an untrammelled success or victory you know

( I was kinds there, ish)

David Davis ( ex SAS officer apparently) got the first report about the London bombs from CC X , Sir, QPM, MBE, ( sir)  etc - which  started " went the day quite well..." and commented: " This report is SO bad, the whole thing will have to be done again."

the others I dont know so much about

[max137]

Its a bit like me sucker punching someone and calling it the best knockout ever in my amatuer boxing days.

[Mozz71]

In Bowen's defense, he repeatedly refers to the death of Yahya Sinwar as a "victory" for Israel, so it keeps with the narrative of each event being either a victory or a defeat.

 

I don't much like the use of the word defeat, it seems too final for me.

[naomi24]

But that happened when the two sides were in conflict, mozz.  On 7 October there was no conflict.  That was a terrorist attack.

[Old_Geezer]

You can have small victories regarding immediate aims in an ongoing conflict; which doesn't say anything about any end result.

That that differs from a situation where it is claimed some nation has been defeated; which implies an end result and the cessation of further hostilities.

It's poor use of the word, but these days, poor use of English seems to be a basic job requirement for a journalist.

[Old_Geezer]

But that ...

[max137]

It will be interesting watcing the pro hamas/palestine march this weekend.

[Peter Pedant]

Its a bit like me sucker punching someone and calling it the best knockout ever in my amatuer boxing days.

people do that a lot in pubs dont they? ( not me not me, but it DOES get the other side to lie down and be quiet) - a bit like a mod marching up silently after you and deleting - - - OK OK  a metaphor too far....

didnt 1973 start with a er sur[rise defensive attack - Egyptian air force destroyed ?

1857 Did not Nana Sahib at Cawnpore hand a note to a British General " I am about to attack you" ? - cant find the ref.

This is a note of surprise attacks in History. The mods seems stuck in 'gormless' mode

[Peter Pedant]

It will be interesting watcing the mods here this weekend modding out any diussent

[vulcan42]

The BBC have a lot of weird writers these days. I read a report recently and the way they described a quite serious event, I thought I was reading a dime novel.

[New Judge]

“seems entirely reasonable to me”

It’s not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination and I think Mr Simpson is undertaking an almost unbelievable exercise in semantics in support of the BBC and its alleged impartiality.

“Terrorism is a loaded word, which people use about an outfit they disapprove of morally.”

Absolute rubbish.

Terrorism, as the name implies, is inflicting or threatening terror in the minds of people by inflicting or threatening violence on people who are not expecting it and who are mainly not well equipped to deal with it, particularly civilians and especially children. It is usually undertaken in an attempt to influence a government to do, or not to do, something which those imposing the terror demand but have failed to secure by other means.

Occasionally an atrocity might take place where the term “terrorism” is debateable. But in the vast majority of cases it is clear cut. It is where people inflict unexpected violence or terror on others in an effort to get their own way.

Whatever your views on the Israel/Hamas dispute, nothing justifies the murder of 1,200 civilians and the taking hostage of 250 others, many of them not even Israeli. If anyone “approves” of that morally (and so, by Mr Simpson’s argument, justifies failing to label Hamas as “terrorists”) then they live in a different world to me.    

“7 July bombings werent an untrammelled success or victory you know

( I was kinds there, ish)”

I was there, Peter. And not “ish”. 

At the time I worked a stone’s throw from Tavistock Square where the No 30 bus exploded. I was lucky, I always got into my office early and had been in more than an hour when the bombings began. Some ime after 9am some of my colleagues were arriving, moaning about chaos on the tube (the tube explosions occurred about 8:50am). We were chatting about what had happened as details began to filter through. At about 9:45am we heard the explosion on the bus quite clearly and were tempted to go and investigate. But it was obvious by then that going outside was not recommended. What wasn’t obvious was that one of our colleagues had been chucked off the tube and had taken a No 30 bus to get to the office.

I don’t know to this day what the absolute bar stewards who committed these atrocities wanted or what they expected my friend and the 51 others who died to do to help them achieve it. But strangely I don’t care. I didn’t need to consider whether or not I “disapproved of them morally” because those people were terrorists, plain and simple.

[fender62]

maybe the bbc do not want to upset the pro palestine protestors, ane uk born islamists and the illegal ones, which of sure there are many, being impartial to murdering fanatics and appease the bbc world service who broacast their bias to 3rd world *** holes, seen a lovley pic of the dead sinwar, enevr looked to good..it suits him.

[Peter Pedant]

.I was there, Peter. And not “ish”.  ( writes NJ)

At the time I worked a stone’s throw from Tavistock Square.

I essayed on this a few weeks ago, whcih no one read. compared to the ooh-and aahing over 9/11,

I dont think it (9/11) has anything to say to us

Oto Peni Airport Hungary - I asked if THE vid was in real time or a video - and they said " Real Time"

and so, all the planes had to land. So many that they had to be moved ( by air) to make room. I said " they will put people in them. They cant  resist doing that to save lulu"  Then I pointed out that the luggage may go ta-ta, and there were AB  screams of " Oh I cant travel without my luggage!" Others asked 'how you know dat?'

Do you want to stay here ( Oto Peni Hungary) for a week and the answer of every passenger was no.....

In contrast, the event s  of London 2005  had much more to teach us. Starting with Br Transport Police locking themselves down in Tavistock Sq and refusing to come out. Now deleied and rewritten see NJ's script. Their Standing Orders in event of bombs, lock the doors, dont answer the phone, and cower under your desks were later denied. 

The Israeli cultural attache rang the local nick and said " if you have a head blown into ( Tavy) Garden, it is a terrorist, not a victim" - The bus is not a bloody big back-fire - it  is a bomb.

down to abandoning the injured in the tube tunnels and no one cd be found to have given the order for the zero responders to abandon the injured. The injured said well they all went as we screamed " dont leave us, we will die!"

The first report ( suppressed) began " went the day quite well" ( Shades of Hungerford, same phrase) and David David commenting - "this report is so bad you are going to have to do the whole lot again" - Hence Lady Hallett s81 coroner's inquest.

A secretary outside BMA Hse pretending to be a doctor.  Unfortunately the BMA rep who told her to take off her white coat was overheard by the Press.  Later, bereaved parents beseiged Leddy H asking if their offspring had died as a result of her (lack of ) intervention. No. But that was very difficult to show. She cdnt tell us - she had committed suicide.

The designated First Aid station: Matron  standing at the entrance of Gt Ormond St, insisting: "we dont take adults here!" ! The adults were treated in the canteen apparently. deffo not the Blitz spirit there then

There was a lot more to learn from London 2005 . - even tho I almost wasnt there. ( I seem to have more info on what happened)

I only read the BMA and Kings cross tunnels transcipts. Lawyers can talk at 250 000 words a day

[Togo]

Why do the Beep Beep See  ...   etc.etc? It is all part of the carefuly administered psychological leverage employed by the left wing propagandists, that are now embedded into what was once our National Broadcaster. The malign organisation ceased to be a news and useful information supplier many years ago and has morphed into a propaganda outlet for the left wing would be social manipulaters, and attitude adjusters. It is why they went all out on Boris. He intended to defund them. It is why they will do the same to Farage. Do not trust a word that eminates from their dangerous output. A safe haven for  paedophiles and sex affenders whose voices and opinions are transmitted into your homes and have been for decades.  

[Mozz71]

My word, you talk some 💩 Togo.

[perseverer]

Bias is in the eye of the beholder (to misquote.) 

I am fascinated by those  who criticise the BBC while basing their opinions on, for example the Telegraph or Spectator, or even GB News.

[naomi24]

My opinions aren't based on any of those, perseverer.  I watch -  and read - the BBC.  It's not difficult to ascertain their agenda.