DNA database

[gary baldy]

Remember our thread about a DNA datbase a while back?
Well it seems they are building one up without our knowledge anyway - whatever we think of it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4633918.stm

[Ward-Minter]

the age old adage, nothing to fear-nothing to hide. Simple as that.

[gary baldy]

That may be relevant if these kids had actually done anything wrong. As it is they havent and therefore their dna should be destroyed unless charges are bought.

[ll_billym]

The "nothing to hide - nothing to fear" argument isn't relevant to the issue here. The issue is that the police has been compiling the database for years without the general public being told about it, this is outrageous. These are the people who are supposed to be clean and good and upholders of the law, they are just as underhand as any organisation. I cannot believe that people are willing to hand then their DNA for them do what they will with it. With this unhealthy reliance on DNA it will becokme easier than ever to frame people for crimes they didn't commit.

[jenstar]

No, they haven't exactly been secretive about it. It's been known about since it started, but unfortunately 99.99% of the population are contemptible idiots who simply didn't care.

[Drusilla]

I find the fact 5% of the UK population are on this database chilling and it's expected to rise to 7% in two years. It's only 0.3% in the USA.

How can any modern, democratic state allow 24,000 youngsters who haven't been cautioned, charged, or prosecuted to be placed on such a database?

It makes me believe the people of this country haven't progressed from the cap doffing, serf like behaviour of pre-WW1 days. Frankly, the British deserve a fascist state and sadly most wouldn't even care!!

[Drusilla]

Can you tell I was wearing my 'Ushanka' with the red star on the front when I wrote the above?

[Ward-Minter]

Can somebody please explain to me what the problem is? If these kids never rape anyboby, burgle, assault, steal a car etc, where traces of thier DNA is left behind, the data base would never be used.

I am sure the authorities have better things to do than look at millions of dots in the DNA profiling of people UNLESS they were trying to detect crime.

If the opposers to this had their children butt raped and there was a chance the offenders DNA being on record. Would they object if this record was obtained without true consent?

[Ward-Minter]

PS (similar argument regarding civil liberties) If your wife/husband had their face blown off by a terrorist and the offenders were caught by an illegal recording of a mobile phone. Would you care if the Police/MI5 recorded phone calls without authority? (Look up RIPA, if you don't know what I am on about)

[Ward-Minter]

PPS this has got me really riled.

If an 11 year old boy dumps some free leaflets in a local rubbish bin which he should have delivered to local homes for �5. He could be arrested for theft related matters. The chances are he will receive a juvenile caution/warning by the local bobby. HE WILL HAVE HIS DNA TAKEN which will be kept for life.

Is this wrong?

[Drusilla]

I'm possibly wrong Ward Minter, but I've always had you pegged as the type of person who objects to intrusive state interference in the lives of individuals.

If you were an American, I'd think of you as an advocate of States rights and small government, as opposed to supporting the central authority of the Federal Government.

The collection of DNA evidence from people not cautioned, charged or convicted of any crime would seem to have more appeal for state interventionists like me, yet I despise this.

This certainly seems to be an issue that turns politics on its head, which I suppose keeps it interesting at least.

[AliFlump]

I started the thread about DNA a while back and understood both sides of the story. Yes the DNA could be used to frame people but it certainly looks like the police are looking into such a database.

[chimney]

I agree with the nothing to hide nothing to fear side of the argument, I feel that if it makes it easier for criminals to be caught then its a good thing.

But 'big brother' is watching

Did you know it is possible for civilians to trace the location of a mobile phone now?

God knows what the authorities know about us

[Lonnie]

I tend to agree with W-M on this, providing its used for the right reasons.

[kempie]

...and who is going to ensure that Lonnie?

[noxlumos]

Do you really mean RIPA Ward-Minter (Re-useable Packaging Association?), I'm assuming you actually mean PIRA (Provos). I can't really see how you can equate any of your for instances with the fact that our children who are innocent of any crime are having their DNA kept on a register without their permission because the Police have already made one mistake.Can they then be trusted to keep that information if they are so reckless? If people have done something wrong fair enough, but the innocent should not have their lives intruded upon in this shameful way and by the way if you'd ever lived in Crossmaglen Co Armagh you would object to covert listening as everyone in the town is listened to and watched. If you want to live like that then you are welcome, but don't inflict it on the rest of us.The listening towers there cause a huge increase in the incidence of cancers, miscarriage and birth defects amongst the local populace and animals in the area and when asked about it the MOD "decline to confirm or deny the presence of substances and methodology in use that may or may not cause that".

http://www.newint.org/issue255/watchtowers.htm

[Oneeyedvic]

nothing to fear - nothing to hide

Question 1: Do you believe that any serving police officer have / do / will ever fabricate evidence to charge people?

If the answer is No, I don't believe this has ever happened / is likely to happen then I guess a DNA database is okay.

Question 2: Do you think that every single person who is in prison is guilty of the crime they have been charged with? Are you absolutely convinced that there is not one innocent person in prison?

If the answer is again No, then keep on wanting your DNA database.

If (like me) you think it is conceivable (and whilst I believe that generally ******* police officers are not corrupt, I do believe that as in any proffession there are some 'rotten eggs') then those who have done nothing wrong obviously do have something to fear.

[kempie]

I believe W-M means this RIPA.

[noxlumos]

Thanks Kempie much obliged, I'll read it.

[surfer mike]

Chilling!!! give it a rest.

For a change i agree with ward minter..

Can't argue with the nothing to fear nothing to hide argument.

[lynneuk74]

Personally I am in favour of a national DNA database - maybe with DNA taken at birth.

I don't see why we should have anything to fear if we are innocent. I believe that the database should not be compiled by or be able to be adjusted by the police but by some independant organisation.

I am fed up with many criminals getting away with, literally, murder because they leave DNA but nobody can trace who it belongs to.

It is wrong that only children who have had 'brushes with the law' are included. It should, in my opinion, be every child and adult.

Don't expect everybody to agree with me but I have no problem with anybody storing my DNA on any database as I know I have nothing to fear - obviously genetic testing is only one strand of proof in a criminal trial so there is surely little risk of the 'wrong' person being arrested purely on DNA evidence - although I agree that not everyone in prison is guilty I don't see how a general DNA database would make this worse.