Hamas, part two

[Lonnie]

Unfortunately, after seeing the news, and reding the papers, it looks like BigMac was mistaken, it appears that Hamas has not, and has no intention of renouncing their aim of destroying Israel, if they persist in this after, lets say one year after taking power, what would your solution be, I know we're talking to an extent hypothetically, and we know what Ward-Minters would do, but I would like to see, if you don't mind, what you feel should be done. thanks.

[Drusilla]

I have always believed in a viable Palestinian state and would like the borders of 1967 to be the agreed solution by both sides.

However, I also believe the state of Israel has a right to exist and would have no problem with the UN, USA and even the UK declaring any further military attacks on Israel by its Arab neighbours, as in the 1940's, 60's and 70's, is as much a declaration of war against them, as it is against Israel.

I cannot for the life of me understand the fanatical opposition of these peoples for one another. It doesn't make sense. Arabs and Jews are both semitic peoples, so it's not about race and the Moslem faith accepts the position of Abraham and Moses in their own faith, so it's not purely a religious issue either.

Religious and political fundamentalism feed off hate and suspicion. The Middle East could benefit from a massive input of humanist philosophies.

[johnlambert]

Leave Ward-Minter alone, (did I really say that)?

The man may be slightly more right wing than Hitler, but, I've recently been on holiday to Israel, I can tell you, these Hamas people are lunatics, and deserve to be slotted, im an ex Army senior nco and I would happily go back in to take these creatures out. (Thats squaddie talk)

[Lonnie]

Drusilla, I agree totally with your post, and I agree that there are fanatics on both sides, it would be nice if a way for peace could be found, but the unmitigated hatred coming from the Arab side is, to the western way of thinking, inexplainable.

But its not all the Arabs, the Egyptions decided peace was the best way, so why not the other Arab states, mainly, to my way of thinking, it can never be resolved, because in their mindset, it goes back to Jacob and Essau, the territorial claim is just a side issue, and one that suits their leaders purpose.

[Lonnie]

Johnlambert, I wasn't having a go at W-M, he's stated his views previously, and I was just stating that we know what they are, everyone is entitled to their view, as for squaddie talk, I served ten years, didn't quite reach your rank, but I think I know what it is.

I have family in Israel, some who have been killed by suicide bombers, and still, my family want peace, also. you have to look nowadays beyond the Middle East, if, as you'd like to do, 'take these creatures out', then once that was done, you'd have to take out every Muslim state in the world, because they would take an attack by the west, as an attack on all Muslims, a nice sentiment, but I don't think it'd work.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

Hamas is a terroist organisation,and until they rennounce it, im afraid they should be treated as they are, Murderers.

[noxlumos]

Any democratically elected government that decides it will attempt to destroy another country or people are on their way to committing genocide and it is completely unacceptable.I hoped that Hamas would seize this opportunity not to be the outcasts and the bad guys but apparently that's not the case, so regrettably I would be prepared to go to war on Israel's behalf if we had to, although that would be the last of last resorts.

[Mr.Tamzarian]

Why should Hamas change anything? They won the election with the Israel issue amongst it's other policies. People voted for them because of that. So Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair don't like it? Tough. They've managed without this comedy duo up to now so this won't make any difference.

[Mr.Tamzarian]

The British robbed the Arabs of their land after WW2 and gave it to the Jewish people to create the state of Israel. They did this after the terrorist activities of some Jewish people, amongst them Menachim Begin, who became Prime Minister of Israel.

He murdered some of his own people and British service men to acheive his aim, which was the state of Israel.

The Arabs don't have a monopoly on terrorism. The Jews were doing it well before them. And their aim was to steal the homeland of the Arabs and Palestinians.

Since then, they've wanted it back. It was stolen from them and Hamas will do all in it's power to re-claim it.

[Lonnie]

Lets see, if memory serves me right, Mr.Tamzarian, The Jews took Caanan (Judah/Israel), from the Caananites, the Romans took Judah from the Jews, for 2000 years there was no nation state on that bit of land, in between, the Arabs came to power and conquered the middle east, eg, Egypt is not an Arab country, but it is ruled by Arabs, by conquest.

Palestine is the Roman name for Phillistine, and if you know your history of the Middle East, the Phillistine/Palestine homeland was never where the state of Israel is.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

Mr Tamzarian,by the sound of your answers you allmost certainly subscribe to the beliefs of people like the iranian govt,as well as Hamas,people like you should realize you can never win,and most of your so called facts are wrong and way out of context.

[derekpara]

Historically, Mr Tamzarian is correct. The jews did establish the state of Israel by terrorism - I was unlucky enough to see what they did to some of my comrades all those years ago. And in some ways I can iunderstand the anger of the Palestinian people, but in this day and age reason must prevail or we are all in trouble.

Don't ask me how it can happen but the moderates of both sides ( and beyond) have got to be heard.

[Mr.Tamzarian]

The state of Israel has stolen even more land from the Arabs, i.e. the Golan Heights, which originally belonged to Syria, plus the Sinai Penninsula.

The USA and GB are as complicit in this because they continue to approve of Israels' actions.

Should Israel have nuclear weapons? If the media is to be beleived, they've already got them. Who helped them?

Hamas will represent the Palestinian people in it's quest to regain the land that is rightfully theirs.

[Ward-Minter]

Mr Tamzarian. I really enjoyed your entries. It is people like you who enlighten me to knowledge I have failed to learn about Palestine and I thank you. You seem very well informed.

Alas, it is also people like you that make my motion of nuking the entire Arab and muslim world to hell seem more plausable and necessary.

Only when the evil koran is just a memory and all followers of hamas are either dead or sufferring from second generation radiation cancer, will decent folk who believe in Western Freedom and good morals be safe from people like you.

[bazwillrun]

Put aside who gave what and who took what from who, just for minute.

Before the area that is now Israel was given to the Jewish people it was virtually desert, there was nothing there worth talking about, for want of a better term it was Thirld World. In a very short time the Jewish people turned it into a Western type First World country.

It is sheer jealousy that Hamas and most Palestinians suffer from. For all the time this land was theirs, what had they really done with it ? exactly, nothing of any note

They hate the fact that within 2-3 decades from 1948 the Israelis had turned it into a financially and technologically and military(amongst other things) viable state.

They just cannot live with the fact they have been shown up by the Israelis, oh and lets not forget where most of these current Palestinians "refugees" came from, they were kicked out by Jordan and others.

Hamas and Fatah will be quite happy fighting amongst themselves for some time to come, as is their want

[Zen]

http://media.putfile.com/belgiumelite


I'm sure they are waiting for you and your mates !!

[Mr.Tamzarian]

Wow! Thanks Ward-Minter. Decent folk who beleive in Western Freedom? Your post is something of a contradiction isn't it?

Many Arab countries don't want "Western Freedom". Even now, lots of them are ruled by leaders who've been in power for decades.

Make the Koran a memory. People dying or suffering from second generation radiation cancer.

Yep. Western Freedom and good morals alright, eh?

[Ward-Minter]

Zen you know my brother died drowning in quick sand, I am sure you answered my thread. How sick do you want to be?

[searchme]

Anybody here afraid of Judaism? No

Anybody here afraid of Islam? You Bet

QED

[noxlumos]

I am afraid of fundamentalist loonies of all persuasions, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Zionists, Moonies, and even the actions of the usually inoffensive Seik community when they surrounded a theatre and attacked people because they were offended by someone's play ( written by a Seik lady inceidentally).

Islam is not evil any more than any other religion, it's the fundamentalist slant that all religions are taking now that really scares me. We should celebrate our similarities not widen the gulf between cultures and being scared won't help, it will only result in knee jerk reactions and make it easier for fundamentailists of all religions to manipulate their people into doing evil against one another.

[kempie]

Menachem Begin (leader of the terrorist group Irgun), the day after the UN vote on the 1947 UN Partition Plan, stated:

The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for ever.

After Menachem Begin and the Likud party won the Israeli election in 1977, the government's foreign policy was stated as follows:

The Jewish people have unchallengeable, eternal, historic right to the Land of Israel including the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the inheritance of their forefathers
(and he pledged to build rural and urban exclusive Jewish colonies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip).

Why would Palestinian Arabs take offence at statements such as these which give the implication of their "removal from the map"?