Love England or leave.

[derekpara]

Following on from other threads dealing with the question of our safety and security being threatened by some immigrants, should we adopt what a French politician is suggesting : Love France/England or leave.

Personally, I support the view that a lot of immigrants despise our country and all it stands for but love our welfare system.

[kev100]

I couldn't agree more derek, any immigrant coming into this country should have to swear allegiance to Britain, we must be the only dummies in the world that take in people like Abu Hamza and let him preach hatred for the west whilst living on social security.

[Lonnie]

Well derekpara, its been proved, that some immigants have accepted a goodly sum, and a free air passage back to their home country, and come back again, purely because we are seen as a sift touch, and have no control over our borders.

I know there are some that may quote previous gpverments, but this goverment has been in for nine years, surely long enough to do something about it.

I agree with your post totally, as for leaving the country, lets see what happens after the next General Election, thats if enough people vote.

[B00]

Yep for once France has the right idea........

and THAT doesnt happen often does it?;-)

[Kathyan]

I am seriously sick of this government and the way this country is going. The government is scared of upsetting anyone who comes here, but does nothing for the people of this country. I have no problem with immigrants who come here and can support themselves and their families, what I do object to is the amount of people coming here just for the benefits, especially when our own people who have paid taxes all their life cannot get the help they need. Trouble is thesedays that anyone who objects is classed as racist.

[Oneeyedvic]

In principle, I support your views; (I should at this point say that my parents came from Sri Lanka but I am born and brought up British and consider myslef to be British (English when it comes to rugby - coincidentally, I have been invited to a England Sri Lanka 20/20 cricket match, and I will (as always) be supporting England))

HOWEVER, where do you draw the line. Whilst I love England, I do not like Blair. I am anti the war in Iraq. Does this mean I should be told to leave? Why should another English person (whose parents were also born in England) have any different rights to protest if he doesn't like some of the laws in this country?

If Brian Haw was a muslim, would he be wrong? http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/

[mimififi]

if you want to emmigrate to japan, or live there for longer than 8 months, I believe it is, you have to prove that you have a minimum amount in your bank account, you have zero debts, you have a job to go to and agree to learn Japenese while you are there.

While this is extreme, and I am in no means anti immigration, I feel that the seemingly unconditional standards that allow many many people into our country every year are a little inpractical, we are approaching saturation point if we havn'e already.

I feel that our laws are not only doing a disservice to us natives, but also to genuine asylum seekers and genuine immigrants who do love this country. They are creating extreme views and racial hatred and while our perceptions might not actually be factually accurate (i.e you remember all the people who cause trouble, but not the ones who don't), it is the percieved problem which causes this disquiet.

I hope for a future which brings us hope and peacefulness, for all of us. I am not selfish over my country, I love to share its affluence, safety and beauty, but I am proud and grateful for being here and wish that all people who lived here viewed it the same way. And of course, that goes for natives also; there are more 'Englishmen' destroying our country than immigrants.

[noxlumos]

I am Irish and I like England and live here quite happily but I'd draw the line at swearing allegiance as this is not my native country and I do not intend to stay here forever. However I have no problems with obeying your laws and not trying to turn your country into a replica of Ireland. I think a sufficient, and very old and well tried, ethos is "When in rome..." and this should be adopted by anyone either visiting or living in a country which is not theirs by birth.

[Oneeyedvic]

"we are approaching saturation point if we havn'e already. " [sic]

I would just point out that there are more British people living abroad than there are immigrants in this country.

Further, I have posted on previous posts - I think that the majority of people do not mind immigrants who come into this country and work hard etc. It seems (imho) that it is the welfare system more at fault than the immigration system

[derekpara]

Thanks, guys for your reasoned comments. So far we all seem to agree that immigrants willing to work, contribute, and obey our laws ( speeding excepted !) are welcome. And NOX, your point is well made, too.

Of course VIC people have the right to protest if they don't like certain of our laws, as long as the protest is peaceful. We also have the power of the vote, and free speech to bring about change. These are the things which some people who accept our hospitality and generosity seek to destroy. In fact, they USE the right of free speech to try and bring about that destruction. Will we ever get a government with the will to deal with these issues ?

[mimififi]

Vic, i hear your point, and agree to some extent. I too agree that it is perhaps the wellfare state that is an outmoded system and needs changing, radically. As I said, many of the problems might not actually be factually accurate, they are a percieved problem.

Switzerland do not have a wellfare system. in Switzerland it is simply not an option to be on benefits. I believe it is actually illegal to be unemployed to all intents and purposes. people have to make a living somehow, or they are unable to buy bread. There are many other issues in switzerland that make this work (as I saw when I lived there) but I think a country that doesn't even have a wellfare state and has oneof the best education systems in all of Europe can't be doing much wrongly.

It's a shame we can't look at all the countries and emulate all the best bits....we might get somewhere then.

[THECORBYLOON]

mimififi If there's no welfare state and it's illegal to be unemployed in Switzerland, why do unemployed folk get benefit there? See here for details.

[sp1814]

"a lot of immigrants despise our country"?

Eh?

Derekpara - have you conducted a survey? Have you got a wide-ranging number of immigrant friends who have confided in you?

Or are you just stirring?

[sp1814]

Let me try to put this plainly...99% of immigrants in the UK get on with their daily lives, cleaning our hospitals, looking after our grandparents, teaching our children, running our transport systems and pumping money into the NHS, police, army etc etc, through their taxes.

You people ignore them and forcus on the 1% who are trouble-makers.

How would you as a British-born white person like to be characterised as a paedophile, simply because of the number of white people you see in the papers who are convicted of that crime?

Do you see where I'm coming from? You take a tiny tiny minority and use that to characterise a majority.

Incidentally, do you think second generation British-born 'immigrants' should also swear allegiance? What about mixed-race people? Will they have to swear allegiance but keep their fingers crossed?

[El D]

Why is coming here and living off benefits any different to a teenager going straight on the dole at 16/18? Anyone care to bet which there are more of? Should we boot them out? Do they love England? People hark on about Great Britain but I see nothing great about the number of narrow minded and xenophobic outpourings in the news section at the moment. 'Daily Mail Britain' doesn't have the same ring to it . . .

[mimififi]

re switzerland: When I lived there this was certainly the case. Perhaps this is a new legislation, or not, but it is certainly not one which is readily available however it looks on that site.

Not to mention that to be the shame unemployment has there makes people avoid it at all personal costs.

Don't get me wrong, as I said in my other posts, I think largely the opinion regarding immigration is a percieved one from the fact the tabloids only report the trouble makers, just as they only report the football fans who are hooligans, not the thousands of others who are perfectly behaved. I am all for immigration and I think that as a free world we should all be allowed to move whereever we like with no risk to our personal safety or our rights.

I also think that it is well a proper to have a wellfare system and it is a life line to lots of people who would otherwise be destitute. I'm NOT suggesting a move back to the poor house; I'm simply saying that it is so open to abuse.

I am concerned about all people who give the UK the poor reputation it is receiving, and am not suggesting that it is only immigration which is causing Britian problems.

The saddest thing I feel about my country at the moment is that standards in ALL areas, education, health, care, citizenship, business, environment, everything in fact are sliding down and down. The World leader that we used to be known as is certainly no longer an earned title. I guess that is the price of a century of arrogance.

having said that though, we can all focus on the detritus of our society, and yet in our day to day lives we meet caring people and enjoy beautiful views and in comparison to some living conditions in the world, exactly what do we have to complain about?

[noxlumos]

Our welfare state is actually one of the things we should be really proud of. Ok so it does get abused sometimes, as any good system will, but the alternative is to become America where people are forced to live in apalling conditions because they scarcely have welfare and their families stigmatised for it, which in turn creates ghetto societies and doesn't do a hell of a lot for race relations, because guess what? One of the largest single group on unemployed people in this country are non-white young males, and it's not because they are work shy or lazy, it's because of middle class white employers prejeudice and stereotypical ideas about them.This in turn would lead to whole ethnic communities ( well already has to some extent) being further impoverished and stereotyped and thus you have an explaination as to why even now with our welfare state in place young non white males find it almost impossible to find work and thus are easy prey for sliding into crime.If you do away with the welfare state or stigmatise it then you end up with a really huge social problem with abundant prejeudice and an increase in crime.I don't claim benefits, I never have, and I have little patience with people who can't be arsed to work, but that really isn't the majority of people immigrant or not, it's just the odd ****** you see on the front of The Daily Mail.

[sp1814]

I'd like to give El D and Noxlumos three stars each...but unfortunately, I don't know how to.

So please take these as a substitute:

***

[Loosehead]

Well the governement demonstrably, abslolutely loathe England and are doing all they can to destroy it, so they should be first to leave!

[Dom Tuk]

The concept of love the country (I suppose England was used to mean the whole of the UK in this question) you live in or leave was probably also back dated to when the British empire extended over vast swathes of Asia and africa. they certainly did not leave...they were forced out.