Chip and Pin

[BigDogsWang]

'Shell' have announced they are considering removing Chip and Pin machines, due to criminals somehow altering them with some kind of an illegal skimming device similar to those used on Cashpoints. It has been suggested that the perpetrators are posing as fake Engineers, turning up out of the blue to supposedly fix the machines, with the cashiers being none the wiser. Is there no end to the measures these unscrupulous scumbags will go to, to get their hands on our hard earned money?

Can anyone suggest a foolproof alternative to using plastic (using cash only does not count)?

[willspal]

I think some responsability should land at the feet of the people working in the shops.

I mean if someone came in to fix a chip and pin machine that was not even broken would you not question them ???? pretty sure I would. What about their ID on entering the shop. If the cashier had just been using the Chip and Pin and then some dodgy looking person walked in saying he wanted to fix it would alarm bells not ring. ?????

Not so very long agao just after the birth of my daughter (before chip and pin) I signed my credit card slip with my daughters name by mistake (post pregnancy brain) and the woman did not even notice she was that busy yapping to her friend. That was in Boots and I had just spent about �100 on baby stuff.

I think some of the shops should train their staff a lot better and get them to use a few brain cells once in a while. 'SOME' staff can be so think its untrue.

WP

[BigDogsWang]

As you rightly point out, cashiers should be warned to look out for unexpected ''Engineers' turning up to service a machine, and no doubt from now on they will be. But a large number of service stations are manned by very young and inexperienced workers, including foreigners (no offence), who do not know how to react when faced with a dubious decision making dilemma. In the same way that pensioners seem to always fall for the Gasman con trick, no matter how many times they are warned.

Unfortunately it will be another case of locking the stable door, etc. Inventive criminals are taking advantage of a highly lucrative �gap in the market�. I suppose comfort should be taken in the fact that when a new criminal phenomenon such as this comes along, it will be short lived as the businesses involved will quickly remedy the problem (as it is certainly not in their interest to allow it to continue for any length of time). But it is estimated that �millions has already disappeared from public bank accounts. As soon as this problem is sorted, they will dream up another scheme.

[BigDogsWang]

The simple fact of the matter is, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY!!

[andy-hughes]

It's a truism that for every 'fraud-proof' gizmo out there, there are several hundred thousand bad-boy-boffins busy proving that it's not 'fraud-proof' to them!

It would appear that his scam was the result of human error, and as has already been pointed out, a little common sense will prevent a recurrence.

i have no worries using chip-and-pin, but I still wouldn't trust internet banking. At least oncec a week i get an e-mail from 'Barclays' asking for my account details. Apart from the fact that no banks ask for account information by e-mail, I don't bank with Barclays! This is simply a 'scatter-gun' approach - hit a few million personal addresses with this messsage, and the law of averages guarentees a return on your 'investment'.

Technology is a wonderful thing, but it has its downside - us!

[smudge]

Makes me want to withdraw all our money & stuff it under the matress like they did years ago - probably be safer there!

[Zen]

Wait for the ID cards( also known as the identity tax) when they become compulsory,the fraudsters will have a field day

[willspal]

Service Stations or anywhere that takes customers money SHOULD NOT be manned by the young, inexperienced or foreigners. You can be young, inexperienced or foreign and still be fully trained up to use your brain. I still think a lot of this could be stopped if only these places took a little more time and effort in training up their staff to be able to communicate with each other as to if the chip and pin machine is broken or not for starters.

If only 'some' people stopped talking about their social life when serving a customer and actually concentrated on what they were doing it would be a start.

I have never understood why somewhere like BP for example takes on a person to work in the forecourt taking large sums of money throughout the day and night yet they keep on failing to train them properly.

You could not go into Sainsburys or wherever and just walk up to the till and say you are an engineer come to fix the chip and pin machine and expect the till girl to let you. So why should it be any different in the Service Stations.

WP

[magentared]

I work in a Boots store, just a small one and I have been one of those terrible shop assistants you talk about. Maybe once or twice when customers used to sign, a person used their partners card and signed their own name, or sign the wrong name and I haven't noticed until they pointed it out. However in my defence, it wasn't because I was thick, just out of spite, hoping they were fraudsters stealing other people's money.

I would right now, like your advice, the card reader at work is dodgy, sometimes works sometimes doesn't. I would like your tips on spotting a "dodgy looking person" they missed that out in my training.

[willspal]

Magentared.

I don't understand why you would do something out of spite to total strangers. Its not anyones place to play guessing games in a shop.

If the card reader is playing up, point blank refuse to use it until its fixed. Think thats the point I was trying to make, if the chip and pin is not working then do something about it, then when someone does come and fix it then it will be the correct person. I can't imagine just standing at a till and allowing a total stranger to walk into the shop and mess around with a chip and pin machine when I know its working just fine.

Would you allow a person just walked in off the street to go into the till after saying they had come to fix the till drawer but first they needed to remove the wad of notes for safety. Even if you knew there was nothing wrong with the till drawer. ????? I hope not.

WP

[magentared]

Firstly, sorry BDW I seemed to have caused an arguement completely off topic of your question, I will try very hard not to be tempted into bickering with Willspal again.

Willspal, I was joking when I said I made those mistakes out of spite, they were only mistake. I am positive you still find that disgraceful and cannot understand how it can be done, but I would like to say that mistakes are made and they were maybe only 2 in the hundreds of card transactions I have done. I am aware that I am dealing with other people's money and it should be carefully guarded, and honestly I do try with every customer.

As I said the store I work in is very small, taking that till out of service would seriously affect takings and customer service. Are you one of those customers who complain about queues but also complains when you are served quickly without chatter, taking it as rudeness? Management are aware of the problem with the card reader and I am told by them to continue using it, it is a very nice idea that I could just refuse and there would be no problems. Instead of blaming the inexperienced youth who is on the till perhaps you could consider the problem is with the older, fully experience management that don't have to deal with the problem.

Maybe I can't spot the dodgy people because I'm still young, hopefully by the time I am old as you are I will have that skill.

[jno]

magentared, watch out for the ones with sacks over their shoulders marked 'SWAG'... As I understand it, the reason for going over to chip and pin from signatures was that it removes the problems from the credit card companies to us, the users. If the companies paid out to someone who forged your signature, it was their fault for not recognising the signature you gave them. Now, however, there's nothing to recognise except a number, and if someone steals, clones or guesses it, and you try to claim your money back, the card company just claims it's your fault because you must have told it to someone.