ChatterBank12 mins ago
Challenging a parket ticket
I was parked illegally on a road with double yellow markings and received a parking ticket. However I noticed that the yellow lines on the pedestrian crossing had a break in them whilst going through the pedestrian crossing (the lines went up to the crossing, were not terminated, the crossing itself had no markings and then the lines carried on after the crossing). My partner looked for advice on this the internet and the advice given was that road markings laid out in this manner are not legal and I should be able to appeal the parking ticket. So far I have appealed to the council, but they claim the markings are legal, I have appealed this one further and the appeal hearing also stated that the markings are legal. Now it will go to the courts. I am prepared to take this further, but has anyone won their appeal for the same type of thing? We are not sure that the website is correct and I will have to pay the fine and probable court costs if I lose. By the way I know perfectly well that I was in the wrong in the first instance, so please do not point this out to me in your posts, but if the road markings are illegal by being incorrectly painted on the road, then the council needs to put them right! Many thanks, Sue
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The law has changed in places since I had daily involvement with it, but I am fairly confident with this reply. The lines break because it is a more serious offence to park on a crossing. It can earn points on the driver's licence. If the lines were continuous, someone might argue that they were innocent of the serious charge because they had only parked on yellow lines. Also, the design of the crossing is prescribed by law and would be altered to an unauthorised design by the addition of lines. Sorry, but I don't think you have a case.
As I understand it, the double yellow lines do need to be terminated with the L line because the restriction continues over the pedestrian crossing - you cannot park on the crossing so the restriction is still in effect.
It is very difficult to win an appeal in these circumstances. You will probably end up paying addtional costs as well as the original fine.
The courts will take the stance that you knew you were illegally parked and if something had been parked on the end of the yellow lines you wouldn't have been able to see them to make a judgement about their legality.
But if you can afford to lose the money, I'll be interested to hear the outcome.
It is very difficult to win an appeal in these circumstances. You will probably end up paying addtional costs as well as the original fine.
The courts will take the stance that you knew you were illegally parked and if something had been parked on the end of the yellow lines you wouldn't have been able to see them to make a judgement about their legality.
But if you can afford to lose the money, I'll be interested to hear the outcome.
perhaps the bar had just worn off - what with so many people crossing the road at exactly that point.
whether the markings are wrong or not, the yellow lines are there for all to see, their purpose is clear, they were not misleading, you were under no confusion as to what they meant - and you still parked on them
i don't think you have a case, as even though you may be right that they are painted incorrectly, that doesn't entitle you to break the law to prove the point.
whether the markings are wrong or not, the yellow lines are there for all to see, their purpose is clear, they were not misleading, you were under no confusion as to what they meant - and you still parked on them
i don't think you have a case, as even though you may be right that they are painted incorrectly, that doesn't entitle you to break the law to prove the point.
I agree with the general drift of the other answers � i.e. you do not have a case.
However, that is not really the point of my answer. You say that this will now go "to the courts". It will, but only to the County Court for recovery of the debt. Parking offences (apart from a few exceptions, and yours does not sound like one of them) are now decriminalised. The only appeal you can make is to the parking adjudicator appropriate to the area in which the offence was committed. It sounds as if you have already done this and a ruling has been made against you.
The adjudicator�s decision is final and no right of appeal exists beyond this level. Once this appeal has been heard, you will have the usual timescales to pay the penalty charge. If you do not pay, the debt will be passed to the County Court for recovery to begin. This will probably eventually involve bailiffs, and if it does the costs start to soar quite rapidly.
The County Court�s sole interest lies in ensuring that the civil debt (for that is what it is) is valid and, if so, that it is recovered in accordance with the law. Once this stage is reached you no longer have the opportunity to argue the merits of your case. The validity of the debt is tested only by ensuring that the proper appeals process has been undertaken. No further argument concerning the legality of the road markings will be heard.
However, that is not really the point of my answer. You say that this will now go "to the courts". It will, but only to the County Court for recovery of the debt. Parking offences (apart from a few exceptions, and yours does not sound like one of them) are now decriminalised. The only appeal you can make is to the parking adjudicator appropriate to the area in which the offence was committed. It sounds as if you have already done this and a ruling has been made against you.
The adjudicator�s decision is final and no right of appeal exists beyond this level. Once this appeal has been heard, you will have the usual timescales to pay the penalty charge. If you do not pay, the debt will be passed to the County Court for recovery to begin. This will probably eventually involve bailiffs, and if it does the costs start to soar quite rapidly.
The County Court�s sole interest lies in ensuring that the civil debt (for that is what it is) is valid and, if so, that it is recovered in accordance with the law. Once this stage is reached you no longer have the opportunity to argue the merits of your case. The validity of the debt is tested only by ensuring that the proper appeals process has been undertaken. No further argument concerning the legality of the road markings will be heard.
auzzie, there is no shame on me as I have parked no where near a pedestrian crossing, it was right down the road round a corner, the yellow lines continued on to the crossing. The lines were definately not terminated at the crossing and I believe they should have been. The whole point of my question and I have already stated this, please read the question properly, is not whether I was in the right or wrong, I was perfectly aware I was in the wrong in this case and I am not trying to argue that point. There are starting to be cases in this country where people are appealing tickets successfully because the council are ignoring clearly defined laws stating exactly how the lines should be painted. The council should not be quessing or presuming 'that is about right'.
I suppose that people are now thinking as am I, that these are cases where the council are saying 'do as I say and not as I do'. They cannot expect the public not to break the law if they are doing exactly that themselves!
If I am in the wrong in this instance, I will be more than happy to pay the fine and be done with it!
I suppose that people are now thinking as am I, that these are cases where the council are saying 'do as I say and not as I do'. They cannot expect the public not to break the law if they are doing exactly that themselves!
If I am in the wrong in this instance, I will be more than happy to pay the fine and be done with it!
it seems that the only thing wrong with these markings was that they didn't have a foot long line across the end before it went to the crossing - hardly a major cackup and i doubt any judge will agree that 'as they've broken the law, then i'll allow you to too'.
also, you were nowhere near the 'illegal' bit, even in a different road, as you said, so why should it affect your ability to comprehend and adhere to the law?
i know you know you have done wrong, but i think what people are trying to say is, whether the markings were illegal or not, it was a minor mistake on their part and was in no way confusing - a mere technicality - and no judge - or anyone - will let you off with this, because the simple fact is that you knowingly broke the law, and as we all know - two wrongs dont make a right
they may even think that as a good citizen you should have informed the relevant people of the mistake in order for them to correct it - not use it as a an excuse to break the law.
also, you were nowhere near the 'illegal' bit, even in a different road, as you said, so why should it affect your ability to comprehend and adhere to the law?
i know you know you have done wrong, but i think what people are trying to say is, whether the markings were illegal or not, it was a minor mistake on their part and was in no way confusing - a mere technicality - and no judge - or anyone - will let you off with this, because the simple fact is that you knowingly broke the law, and as we all know - two wrongs dont make a right
they may even think that as a good citizen you should have informed the relevant people of the mistake in order for them to correct it - not use it as a an excuse to break the law.
I must reiterate what I have already said.
This issue will not come before a judge, a bench of magistrates or anybody else. Once the parking adjudicator�s decision has been made that is the end of the matter as far as the legality of the markings is concerned. The only judge to see your case after that will be the County Court judge and he or she is only interested in enforcing the debt.
The parking adjudicator has it within his power to refer matters of law to court, and this would only be done in very exceptional circumstances. But you do not. It has clearly been decided in your case that the application of the parking penalty was fair and that no matter of law has arisen which would make its application illegal.
Very simply, you have no avenue of appeal open to you. I know it seems very strange these days for a matter to be determined without multiple layers of appeal being available, but that is the way it is with parking penalties. Any solicitor will tell you the same and I advise you to pay up and move on. Failure to do so will result in the penalty increasing and, if it is sent to the County Court for recovery, costs being applied.
This issue will not come before a judge, a bench of magistrates or anybody else. Once the parking adjudicator�s decision has been made that is the end of the matter as far as the legality of the markings is concerned. The only judge to see your case after that will be the County Court judge and he or she is only interested in enforcing the debt.
The parking adjudicator has it within his power to refer matters of law to court, and this would only be done in very exceptional circumstances. But you do not. It has clearly been decided in your case that the application of the parking penalty was fair and that no matter of law has arisen which would make its application illegal.
Very simply, you have no avenue of appeal open to you. I know it seems very strange these days for a matter to be determined without multiple layers of appeal being available, but that is the way it is with parking penalties. Any solicitor will tell you the same and I advise you to pay up and move on. Failure to do so will result in the penalty increasing and, if it is sent to the County Court for recovery, costs being applied.
Many thanks for all your replies, I have no problem in paying the fine, obviously I know I am in the wrong, but that is not what this is about. If I do win this, I will be happy to pay what would have been the fine to a charity as I am not out to avoid trying to pay my 'dues'. All of you who have posted on here have obviously not been following the recent documentaries shown on tv, regarding people that have successfully appealed parking tickets because the council who has painted markings on the road or put up signs, have done so incorrectly. The road markings or signs must be applied as per the road traffic act and any that are missing such things as termination bars on double yellows etc are not enforceable. I agree that this does not mean that we the public, should ignore basic safety rules and park where ever we like, but I think that people are now feeling that their councils are getting too many things wrong on a regular basis and if nothing else, people starting to win appeals will make them, in effect do their jobs properly!
We will have another look at the site that give us the information to take this to appeal and if I feel that the information may be incorrect, I will think again about continuing with this, JudgeJ, I may have a further right of appeal, I don't think it has quite gone as far as I had thought!
Once again many thanks for the thoughts posted.
We will have another look at the site that give us the information to take this to appeal and if I feel that the information may be incorrect, I will think again about continuing with this, JudgeJ, I may have a further right of appeal, I don't think it has quite gone as far as I had thought!
Once again many thanks for the thoughts posted.
I gathered from your question that the Parking Adjudicator had already dealt with your case. Obviously I�m wrong.
The appeal process has two stages. You firstly raise the matter with the issuing authority (usually the local council). If they rule against you, you then appeal to the Parking Adjudicator. After this ruling there is no route of appeal open to you.
If you have not yet gone the whole hog I wish you luck. I agree that road markings should follow the letter of the law � after all motorists are expected to do likewise and are prosecuted for the smallest of transgressions if they don�t.
I�d be interested to learn the outcome.
The appeal process has two stages. You firstly raise the matter with the issuing authority (usually the local council). If they rule against you, you then appeal to the Parking Adjudicator. After this ruling there is no route of appeal open to you.
If you have not yet gone the whole hog I wish you luck. I agree that road markings should follow the letter of the law � after all motorists are expected to do likewise and are prosecuted for the smallest of transgressions if they don�t.
I�d be interested to learn the outcome.
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