Crosswords1 min ago
Has God Died?
As to whether or not God existed in the past is open to debate. But is He here now? There is no indication that He is. No messages booming down from the sky, no miracles, no sign whatsoever. Why not? If He expects us to believe in Him, surely it is not asking too much that He gives us a sign every once in a while? Is it? To expect us to take it on trust for over two thousand years is asking a bit much. Perhaps He hasn't died, perhaps He can't, so where is He then? I suppose He could be busy elsewhere, making another universe or something. Doesn't seem very God-like to abandon us in this way though does it, we could use a little help just now.
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I'm an atheist but as far as I'm aware, Christians make a so-called "leap of faith" whereby they make the decision to believe in God without any obvious demonstration of his/her existence. Whilst in the wilderness, Jesus encountered the devil who tempted him to demonstrate his power and was rebuked by him. The suggestion is that God is "above" such showmanship. We also have to bear in mind that miracles of the past were probably natural phenomena interpreted as miracles by less sophisticated peoples. Some fundamentalist Christians of the present day would have you believe that recent natural disasters are in fact signs from, what would appear to be, a particularly grumpy God.
(I'm not a theologist so you don't have to take my word for it!)
It's always puzzled me how "God" decided who to present himself to with signs and such. There are millions of people in the world who have never heard of him and apparently they cannot achieve everlasting life because they don't believe. Such discrimination would seem to be a very bad example to set the rest of us and not the actions of a deity who is, according to his biography, "just". Even if there was someone up there, if I was, for example, starving and oppressed in Rwanda, I wouldn't be doing much worshipping.
To loosely quote a well known naturalist: One could be easily persuaded to believe that the extraordinary diversity of life on earth is the creation of a supernatural being; but when one observes a young child in some remote part of Africa continually crying because a worm is slowly boring through it's eye-ball, it is hard to justify the existence of a good God.
Here are two related threads:
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OK my appologies if this appears twice but the last posting didn't make it.
Most religions are base on getting right with God through doing good deads, keeping rituals etc. This is a very human way of looking at things.
Christianity says that we cannot get right with God by what we do. Rather it says that God sent Jesus to die so that our sin can be forgiven and we can be right with God. We then need to accept this forgiveness offered to everyone in order to be right with God. This sets it appart from other religions.
Hamish
Most religions are base on getting right with God through doing good deads, keeping rituals etc. This is a very human way of looking at things.
Christianity says that we cannot get right with God by what we do. Rather it says that God sent Jesus to die so that our sin can be forgiven and we can be right with God. We then need to accept this forgiveness offered to everyone in order to be right with God. This sets it appart from other religions.
Hamish
I am Christian and I believe that whether you belive God is 'here' now or not is a question of faith. I can't tell you He is here, or that He even exists, because, as I said, it's a question of faith. I belive God exists and even if he hasn't spoken to us from a big booming voice in the sky recently, doesn't mean he's 'died'. There are miracles that happen everyday to people. (An avalanche that came off Turtle Mt, Alberta once hit a town in the early 1900s. The only survivor was a baby girl. She was seated atop a large boulder, completely intact and on top of all the rubble. You can go there yourself and read the plaque if you want) whether you believe that's an act of God or not is up to you.
Hey, (sorry to continue but I just thought of something else =S I will shut up after this I promise!) Ok, I know some people question whether there really is a God or not because of all the bad things that are happening in the world but remember, God gave us our own free will didn't he? It would make no sense to make androids that will automatically love you back (which is what he originally wanted and why he created man in the first place) because that isn't real love. However, because of our ability to make choices we have been slowly destroying ourselves. Did God say go to war and blow eachother to kingdom come? No, we made that decision for ourselves. Also, keep in mind that there IS a devil (if you believe in God you probably also believe in Satan) and he MIGHT be responsible for some of this. Also, if you believe God sent His son to suffer pain of death and scorn for OUR sake, 'surely it is not asking too much' to believe in the guy!
With respect, regarding Aquachick's first post; if we attribute the survival of the baby girl at Turtle Mt. to an "act of God", should we also attribute the deaths of those who didn't survive to a somewhat less benevolent "act of God"? It would seem a little convenient for Christians to only credit God for fortuitous events. This might also be used to suggest that the deceased had somehow incurred the wrath of God.
To aquachick: Religion is nothing more than an attempt to control a population by enforcing 'laws' that come from a higher authority that is beyond challenge, a tool to keep people 'in line' if you will. Particularly useful in circumstances where the population are under duress, be it poverty, starvation, tyranny. whatever, because then the powers that rule will assure you that you must accept your lot, lead a good life, don't rock the boat and cause any trouble, and you will be rewarded in the next life. If I'm right and religion is nothing more than a man made device for controlling the people, why do people believe in it? Because they want to! Religion gives meaning to people's lives. Take away their belief in God, our existence seems rather nasty and pointless doesn't it. The universe is reduced to a cold unfeeling place that we just happen to have evolved in; that we struggle to survive in, and that has nobody out there looking after us because we are totally alone. When we die its all over for us, there's nothing more, and our descendants continue the eternal struggle for survival. We become nothing more than animals that happened to get smart and are here by pure chance alone, and by the same token at some point in the future may not be here at all.
Of course God exists. If you are looking for signs read the Bible. They are everywhere. There are signs and miracles every day. The very fact that plants breath out enough oxygen for us and survive yet breath in the carbon dixoide we breath out is no accident. How can you believe that He has abandoned us? If you are looking for proof of his existance read the Bible. Predictions were made from the very beginning and they have been 100% accurate. Read Daniel and Revelations then pick up the newspaper or turn on the news and you'll see it coming true today. You think Steven King is scarey? Read the Left Behind Series....the kids...by LaHaye and Jenkins. They excellent books and are in paperback. The stories are fiction but you might just see that these kids have the same questions and feeling that you do. It will answer some questions for you, God has not abandoned you or any of those atheists who have responded. Even if you don't believe in Him, He believes in you. There is even a story in the Gospels about an apostle named Thomas who had doubts that is where you get the expression a "Doubting Thomas."
Everyone goes through difficult times in their lives and it seems as if we are alone but we are not. Granted bad things happen to good people all the time. Look what happened to God's Son.....He was not only good, He was perfect. Hang in there and remember that God helps those who help themselves. I wish you well. Wackadoo
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The bible is very persuasive, but not proof, of the existence of God. Its just a book like any other, it contains pages of printed text bound together. It does not possess any mystical power of course, any more than a newspaper. The content, however, is interesting in what it claims. It was once held as containing the absolute truth, but even this is being challenged. We no longer believe that the world was created in a few days. Back in the past people did genuinely believe the bible was 'gospel' and beyond question, but times, fortunately, have changed. The bible is being 'updated' so that it will again be acceptable to today's society. But is it really meaningful, can it be held up as 'proof' that God exists? No. Someone will always quote from the bible to back-up their argument even when it is meaningless to do so, because it requires that the bible be accepted as hard evidence, and it quite simply isn't. The bible can be interpreted any way you want.
I'm interested in the fact that so many religious people hold up their religious texts and declare them proof of their religious beliefs.
By the way, biblical scholars have come to the well-supported conclusion that the Old Testament (the Hebrew bible) is not an intact document from one source, but actually has 4 or 5 different authors or "editors" who gathered or wrote the stories and laws. These different editors are from different centuries and have different perspectives. One was writing during the time of King Solomon, and many of those sections have a propagandistic spin meant to defend the right of David's line to be kings. Another was edited by a group of priests several centuries later, who thought people weren't being holy enough and wrote to convince people to be religiously strict. And so on.
Also, if you are looking at the characteristics of the god in the bible, you are going to be seeing several different gods. If you read the hebrew and aramaic sections, you'll note that several different words are used for god... later translaters have assumed these were the same god and translated accordingly. But there is some evidence that the earliest depiction of god was a local, tribal god, who even had a lady-friend and was jealous of other local tribal gods. Later we see a god who is supposedly the only god... where did this one come from?
The point being that the bible does nothing to convince me that there is a god, nor tell me which god it is... it is valuable as an historical document depicting a society through several centuries, including their different conceptions of deities.
I also want to say that the stories in the bible cannot be looked at as true stories. They are myths, and many of them have universal themes that pop up in myths across cultures. The story of Sarah getting pregnant in her old age? That theme is repeated in the myths of other cultures as well. Jacob wrestling with the angel? There are many stories of humans being tested by representatives of a deity. Adam, Eve, the fruit, and the serpent? Similarly, serpents come up as temptors in most cultures. The stories in the bible were set down on paper not because they were true but because they were either widely known myths in the culture, or they were made up to prove a point by the writer.
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