Multiculturalism/Race Relations

[Fingerprint]

I know that there have been numerous threads in this section recently regarding Muslims, Islam, Terrorism and the Veil etc. This is obviously a reflection of the heavy media coverage of these issues. These questions always produce strong opions on both sides, often deteriorating to the point of a slanging match between "racists" and "liberals".

To clear the water somewhat I thought it would be interesting to ask for peoples thoughts about Multiculturalism and Race Relations in todays Britiain, with the exception of Muslims. I want to focus this thread on the other groups for example the Chinese, Indians, Jamaicans, Africans and West Indians amongst many more. Do you feel that multiculturalism is working and what impact is it having? Remember no references to muslims, terrorism or the veil etc.

My personal opinion is that multi-culturalism is working although their is still work to be done. Overall I feel that it has enriched the fabric of our society and I enjoy the diversity. I also feel that multi-culturalism has provided many economic benefits.

Discuss

[Lonnie]

Multi-culturism, different Ethnic groups living in the same country, and getting on, I assume that what you mean.

It can only work if the laws of the host country are accepted and abided by, and if all peoples don't take offence at the way other people live, and live peacefully and can integrate without losing their identity.

It can work, but only with a concious effort by all peoples.

[bazwillrun]

youve obviously been taking large quantites of illegal substances, or its a wind up,

It is destroying this country, simple as that.
If you want to live in a country with a mass of immigrants who have no respect or regard for the heritage of this country, and who will take it from us as is happening then that is your choice.
. The fabric of this country and its cultural heritage is being destroyed little by little day by day .
All we seem to do is to pander to these people and their wants, whereas it should be that they bend over backwards to fit in and adopt our culture and ways.
Trouble is people like you are too blinkered to the bigger picture and what is really happening.

[Doggy2]

Multiculturalism is about respecting other cultures and traditions. Wearing other clothes/ attires is part of certain cultures. If I see a large number of jewish men wearing caps grow their hari round their ears or their women wear hair nets when walking down Golders Green I wouldn't get offended at them enforcing their way of life as much as moslem women want to cover their heads. The only difference is they do it more conspicuously. Multiculturalism will not work as long as one group of minority slag off the others.
Whats good for the goose...

[Fingerprint]

bazwillrun, why not illustrate your point by giving an example of how immigranats have no respect or regard for the heratige of this country and refuse to fit in.

[vehelpfulguy]

A gradual flow of immigrants into this country (or any country) is a good thing and does bring some benefits.

After all both Tescos and Marks and Spencers were started by immigrants, and curry is now Britains favorite food.

But while every country needs SOME immigration I do think that it has gone FAR to far in this country in the last 20 years.

We now have many schools in this country that are 100% 'non-white' which is a scandal.

We have cities like Leicester and Birmingham that are heading to over 50% immigrants

We have a special task force in the Police, operation Trident, that is purely aimed at gun crime in the black community.

http://www.met.police.uk/trident/index.htm

We are told that immigration brings people here to work, but unemployment amongst immigrant communities is far higher than the indiginous population.

There are parts of Birmingham (where I live) that I am scared to drive through at night (and would not dream of walking through) for fear of a mugging or having a gun pointed at me and these area are all mainly populated by immigrants.

I am not saying "all whites good, all immigrants bad" because there are very many awful white people and very many good immigrants.

But immigration has not been MANAGED it has just been allowed to happen, and now it is too late to do anything about it.

I do fear for the future of this country.

[vehelpfulguy]

Fingerprint, you ask for an example of how some immigrant groups do not fit it.

How about the Muslims NOT supporting Holocaust Memorial Day here in the UK because it is for the Jews only.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4582736.stm

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, going off what i see with my own eyes and not what the media want me to see, i dont think multiculturalism is working in some parts. You cant enforce something on someone who is brainwashed into a certain belief. Like a few have said, it seems to be our country that is bowing down to everyones needs, when really it should be the visitors who should respect our way of life. Obviously for speaking the truth about something like this, i will be labelled a racist. I am far from it. i have friends from all different backgrounds. Some groups welcome integration, but others dont. i could give thousands of examples but i would just be telling you what you already know, so i dont want to sound patronising. I (and i think millions more of us true Englishmen) think that this multiculturalism of England cant be done until people accept our way of life...

[admarlow]

fingerprint from your question you said ''ends in a slanging match between the racists and the liberals''. So are you saying that if you are not a liberal you are a racist?

[bazwillrun]

Fingerprint
the very fact that you need examples is proof of your closeted blinkered view
veryhelpfulguy has given you some examples how many do you need. The trouble is people with your view dont wake up to the truth until its too late

[vehelpfulguy]

Is this what you mean by immigration working ?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/ 0,,958380,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5405 870.stm

http://www.metro.co.uk/home/article.html?in_ar ticle_id=21404&in_page_id=1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3808165.stm

[Fingerprint]

Admarlow, the point I was making is that questions on this subject often end in slanging matches with people accusing each other of being "racists" and "liberals". Obviously I am not saying that everyone is either a racist or a liberal.

[dummkopf]

This probably belongs in literature section, but in today's Britain it makes me think.
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep,
though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[Fingerprint]

bazwillrun, the reason I asked for examples was because in a discussion you have to back up your arguments rather than just making sweeping statements like immigrants have no respect or regard for our country. The example you finally did give was about Muslims, the point of this thread was to discuss multiculturalism without muslim issues muddying the water.

[Fingerprint]

Thanks for you post and your arguments vhelpfulguy. I'm also from Birmingham and agree that there are certain areas I would be scared to be in at night. I don't however agree that they are all mainly populaed by immigrants. Areas like Chelmsley Wood, Kingstanding and Castle Vale have the worst crime statistics in the city and are all predominately populated by whites.

Your statistics about the Birmingham immigrant population heading over 50% and about the immigrant population having higher unmeployment rates are both incorrect. Birminghams non-white population is only estimated at 29.6% and the vast majority are British born. It is also a fact that immigrants in the UK are on average more highly educated.

[admarlow]

fingerprint what is your source for the education of immagrants?

[Fingerprint]

It's from a home office study in 2005. Which stated that although the level of qualifications amongst migrants is very varied, research suggested that many migrants are very well educated, with more studying to degree level than the UK-born population. I don't have a link but it's on the net somewhere.

[admarlow]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/rdsolr0 503.pdf

I think page 29 is very interesting

[Fingerprint]

Admarlow, the report in the link you posted states my ealier point about the average immigrant being more highly educated than the average Brit, see page 8. The report also discusses how immigrants are paid on average significantly lower wages than the average White person who is born here. (up to 40% for Bangladeshis). It also states that non-white immigrants are more likely to be self employed than a white nationalo born here.

I must say Admarlow I find it quite amusing how you analyse any pro-multicultural comments to the 9th degree to the point where you dig up statistics recorded between 1979 and 2000 to make a point. However when people post ridiculus sweeping comments like bazwillrun you remain silent. This does not make for a balanced debate and it does put you across as a bit of a racist.

[admarlow]

lol, that didn't take long to come out, the old liberal ''you are a racist'' comment (yawn). Fingerprint, my point from those figures is that maybe a ''degree'' or even more so claimed degree doesn't hold much sway in the labour market in this country, maybe there is a reason for this.