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The Despatches Debate- Freedom of Speach?
Did anyone watch it, what did you think? Did it change your mind about anything?
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Incase you missed it -
Jon Snow set the cat among the pigeons a couple of months ago when he made a Dispatches asking whether Britain�s 1.5 million Muslims represented a threat to liberal, secular and tolerant British values. His programme was based on a survey that showed young Muslims are less liberal and more religious than their parents; one in four said that the London bombings were justified by the War on Terror, and one in three would prefer to live under Sharia. The controversy over the Danish cartoons and the lecture given by the Pope have led many to wonder whether freedom of speech in this country is threatened by the Muslim community. Tonight Jon Snow chairs a debate on this incendiary subject in front of a studio audience.
- The Times
Jon Snow set the cat among the pigeons a couple of months ago when he made a Dispatches asking whether Britain�s 1.5 million Muslims represented a threat to liberal, secular and tolerant British values. His programme was based on a survey that showed young Muslims are less liberal and more religious than their parents; one in four said that the London bombings were justified by the War on Terror, and one in three would prefer to live under Sharia. The controversy over the Danish cartoons and the lecture given by the Pope have led many to wonder whether freedom of speech in this country is threatened by the Muslim community. Tonight Jon Snow chairs a debate on this incendiary subject in front of a studio audience.
- The Times
Well, the last thing there was a vote and 48% of the audience (ment to be a cross section but probabily not) thought that Muslims did endanger free speach in the uk (52% didn't) but there were other telling votes, i.e. 62% of them thought that Jon Snow should show the danish cartoons live on the show (although he didn't coward!). Many people argued for ''a right to offend and be offended'' and I agre with this, Stephen Laurences lawyer didn't.
Any curtailage of free speech always concerns me greatly, and if I'm backed into a corner I would err along the lines of
"right to offend and be offended" really in preferance to us over legistlating and possibly shooting ourselves in the foot in the process. The problem is then, that every racist, sexist, etc militant weirdo would immediately be as offensive and controversial as possible, so you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't actually fel personally that Muslioms are any great threat to anything, despite all the media hype and massaged figures.
I mean "one in four agreed with the London bombings", which actualy then means that THREE IN FOUR DON'T.
Do you see what I mean? So you'll forgive me if I don't feel the sky is falling just yet.
"right to offend and be offended" really in preferance to us over legistlating and possibly shooting ourselves in the foot in the process. The problem is then, that every racist, sexist, etc militant weirdo would immediately be as offensive and controversial as possible, so you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't actually fel personally that Muslioms are any great threat to anything, despite all the media hype and massaged figures.
I mean "one in four agreed with the London bombings", which actualy then means that THREE IN FOUR DON'T.
Do you see what I mean? So you'll forgive me if I don't feel the sky is falling just yet.
"No I missed it - anything interesting or was it the same old arguments trotted out by the usual suspects? "
Yep pretty much.
The problem with these things is you tend to have 2 people with very strong views as the people doing the debating. It's obvious neither will change their mind and both have their agendas to push.
I switched over half way through as it seemed as if Imran Khan thought he was in a court room cross examaning a witness.
Yep pretty much.
The problem with these things is you tend to have 2 people with very strong views as the people doing the debating. It's obvious neither will change their mind and both have their agendas to push.
I switched over half way through as it seemed as if Imran Khan thought he was in a court room cross examaning a witness.
Think the comment made by the gentleman who said that although we have free speech, perhaps we should use it wisely and show a little restraint / self control before we waded in and started hurling insults at each other was a very valid point! As for Jon Snow not showing the Danish cartoons, and pandering to the...this is our country and we can say and do as we like brigade... that could be argued by some as being a sensible and mature decision!
"I mean "one in four agreed with the London bombings", which actualy then means that THREE IN FOUR DON'T.
Do you see what I mean? "
Just because a majority have what might be considered the "right" opinion doesn't mean we should dimiss the negative results.
The correct answer to that question should clearly be 0 in 4, not 1 in 4 (25%).
Do you see what I mean? "
Just because a majority have what might be considered the "right" opinion doesn't mean we should dimiss the negative results.
The correct answer to that question should clearly be 0 in 4, not 1 in 4 (25%).
Yep, watched it and thought it was a bit of a cop out to be honest - was not happy that the cartoons were not shown despite the majority of the audience thinking they should be shown: for me this was proof positive that our freedom of speech is being eroded, not necessarilly by Muslims, but by our Medya being afraid to upset Muslims (is this tantamount to the same thing? hmmm, topic for another debate perhaps).
Of the two advocates I felt that Imran Khan was the better performer, despite disagreeing with virtually everything he said, and I also felt Chrakrabati performed well as did the film producer (whose name has slipped my mind) and the Iman.
The black muslim (can't remember his name either) really got on my nerves though: he felt a coherent argument was just simply shouting louder than anybody else - and his arguments were, in my view, weak.
On the whole though I felt they let a very good opportunity go to waste.
In a way (and I know this is pathetic - but I can't help my feelings), I was hoping for a bit of payback for the Question Time disgrace a couple of days after 9/11: never, in all my life, have I been as disgusted: the BBC and Dimbleby allowed such a blantantly bias Muslim audience mercilessly attack the former US Amabassador, who was close to tears for the murder of his countrymen - to this day it still makes me angry.
Of the two advocates I felt that Imran Khan was the better performer, despite disagreeing with virtually everything he said, and I also felt Chrakrabati performed well as did the film producer (whose name has slipped my mind) and the Iman.
The black muslim (can't remember his name either) really got on my nerves though: he felt a coherent argument was just simply shouting louder than anybody else - and his arguments were, in my view, weak.
On the whole though I felt they let a very good opportunity go to waste.
In a way (and I know this is pathetic - but I can't help my feelings), I was hoping for a bit of payback for the Question Time disgrace a couple of days after 9/11: never, in all my life, have I been as disgusted: the BBC and Dimbleby allowed such a blantantly bias Muslim audience mercilessly attack the former US Amabassador, who was close to tears for the murder of his countrymen - to this day it still makes me angry.
wowo people have their opinions and you will never get 100% concensus that an atrocity is an atrocity from any race or ethnic group.
Ask about the IRA in West Belfast and then again in East Belfast and you'll get two very different responses, and the same thing applies anywhere about anything.Or do you imagine we lived in a perfect world, where we all sat round singing Kumbaya and holding hands until the nasty Muslim extremists turned up?
MOST Muslims are pleasant , decent, people, a few are not, you get it with any race anywhere and you always have done, so why are we now allowing ourselves to be panicked and parnoid about it? The media are having a field day with this hysteria, selling their tawdry rags like never before.
Ask about the IRA in West Belfast and then again in East Belfast and you'll get two very different responses, and the same thing applies anywhere about anything.Or do you imagine we lived in a perfect world, where we all sat round singing Kumbaya and holding hands until the nasty Muslim extremists turned up?
MOST Muslims are pleasant , decent, people, a few are not, you get it with any race anywhere and you always have done, so why are we now allowing ourselves to be panicked and parnoid about it? The media are having a field day with this hysteria, selling their tawdry rags like never before.
Where did this 1 in 4 figure come from?
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2006/Sund ay%20Telegraph%20-%20Mulims%20Feb/Sunday%20Tel egraph%20Muslims%20feb06.asp
That's 1% of muslims think the attacks on London were right
Does somebody have a link for this 25% figure? because it smells fishy to me!
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2006/Sund ay%20Telegraph%20-%20Mulims%20Feb/Sunday%20Tel egraph%20Muslims%20feb06.asp
That's 1% of muslims think the attacks on London were right
Does somebody have a link for this 25% figure? because it smells fishy to me!
well it was quoted here so there must be a source
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article /0,,14934-2408196,00.html
on the programme I think they said it was yougov.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article /0,,14934-2408196,00.html
on the programme I think they said it was yougov.
Oh I get it!
Somebody's been twisting the data!
1% think it was right to do it but the question below was do you have any sympathy with the attacks
75% said "No" so the story's been twisted to get 25% from the real answer which was 1% - (Even disregarding the 5% that did not answer!)
And you think we shouldn't blame the media!
Somebody's been twisting the data!
1% think it was right to do it but the question below was do you have any sympathy with the attacks
75% said "No" so the story's been twisted to get 25% from the real answer which was 1% - (Even disregarding the 5% that did not answer!)
And you think we shouldn't blame the media!
"wowo people have their opinions and you will never get 100% concensus that an atrocity is an atrocity from any race or ethnic group."
I agree, the point I was making was simply that 25% is a very high number and could not be put down to a tiny minority, it is a very significant amount of people. If you don't think so consider this, Labout are in power because just 21% of the electorate voted for them.
Having said all that you can make anything up out of statistic especially in such a survey which targeted a minority group likely to produce such results (young male muslims). I in fact think the 1 in 4 relates to people having "sympathy" witht he July 7th Bombers.
As a Londoner who has first hand experience of the years of bombing we suffered under the IRA I'm under no illusions about the world. I have no problem with muslims (I know plenty) and do realise almost all are perfectly decent citizens of the UK.
I agree, the point I was making was simply that 25% is a very high number and could not be put down to a tiny minority, it is a very significant amount of people. If you don't think so consider this, Labout are in power because just 21% of the electorate voted for them.
Having said all that you can make anything up out of statistic especially in such a survey which targeted a minority group likely to produce such results (young male muslims). I in fact think the 1 in 4 relates to people having "sympathy" witht he July 7th Bombers.
As a Londoner who has first hand experience of the years of bombing we suffered under the IRA I'm under no illusions about the world. I have no problem with muslims (I know plenty) and do realise almost all are perfectly decent citizens of the UK.
I think that the 1 out of 3 muslims want Shia law in Britain more shocking than the other questions
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1145782006
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1145782006
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