Sheikh Taj el-Din al-Hilali

[anotheoldgit]

Could it be that males are more likely to commit rape upon a woman if she is not wearing a veil? Perhaps this is the reason some Muslim women insist upon wear a veil in the presence of males?

I refer of course to the statement made by Australia's most senior leading cleric, Sheikh Taj el-Din al-Hilali, when he said ' Women who do not wear a hijab were like uncovered meat '. 'If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside, and the cats come and eat it, whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat '? The uncovered meat is the problem he said. He also condemned women who swayed suggestively and wore make-up, also another reason for attracting sexual assault, according to the Sheikh.

Is the Sheikh somehow trying to justify the heinous crime of sexual assault and rape or are they indeed the thoughts that go through his own mind?

[LazyGun]

I wouldn't subscribe to his philosphy. I would imagine he is trying to justify the wearing of hijab/niqab, rather than justifying assault / rape.
Essentially, he is saying that all males are completely dominated by their own sex drive, and are therefore at least partially absolved if they force their attentions on a woman who was "asking for it", either in their actions or dress.
He is also saying that any woman who dresses or acts in a "provocative" manner would be partly to blame if she was assaulted.

These sentiments are not exclusively held by muslims however... I have heard the same such sentiments expressed in our own society. There was at least one case where a Judge let a guy go because in his opinion the woman was dressed provocatively and was "asking for it". These selfsame sentiments can often be heard in conversations in pubs up and down the country, and you will find men and women who believe this to be at least partially true to a greater or lesser extent.

[WaldoMcFroog]

The sheik has retracted his words claiming that they were both a quote from someone else and that he was referring to infidelity not sexual assault. He has gone on to say that regardless of whether one approves of a woman's mode of dress, it does not excuse sexual violence.

One can probably debate the motives and sincerity for his retraction until the cows come home, but it's noticable that the president of the organisation which owns the mosque where the Sheik teaches has threatened to ban him and has condemned his words, as have senior muslim women in Australia. Seems like he's not representing anyone apart from himself on this one.

Regretably, the Sheik won't be the first person to advance such deeply unpalatable views and nor will he be the last. If I were willing to put the necessary words in to a search engine (and from work I'm not) I know I'd be able to find far too many people from all walks of life who have made similarily disgusting statements.

[Booldawg]

haha he's using the popes tactics!

[Bazile]

What a load of cr%p coming from this cleric

Is he really saying that the millions of women on this planet that dont wear a hijab are inviting a sexual assault - and if they are assaulted , it is their fault ?

Is it any wonder that misguided people commit henious crimes , if they are under the influence of people like this cleric , who spout such indefensible and dangerous opinions ?

[Le Chat]

8o yr old women, who are infirm, incontinent and 'unsexual' are raped. Rape is a crime of violence and domination, carried out in a sexual manner. It is disgusting to think that anyone could even think of an uncovered woman as 'meat.' It says more about the cleric and his own inclinations, I feel. It is also insulting to men, labelling them as not in control of their own actions and choices.

[ummmm]

It doesn't say a lot for muslim men does it?

[makemesmile]

"uncovered meat".... he knows how to charm a girl!

[admarlow]

Its is actually offensive to both women and I think more so men. He is saying women almost deserve what they get, and that men can't control themselves unless women hide under a veil.

[brionon]

It's obvious that Muslim males are not to be trusted around Non-veiled females.

[admarlow]

brionon we all know that that is not the case but that is what this guy is suggesting

[Catso]

Well, it�s an interesting concept, moving the blame for a crime to the victim.

It's not unreasonable to say that if people leave expensive cars parked on the street, without covering them up with a tarp. it�s their own fault they get them nicked.

And maybe if people wander about looking like they are a member of an ethnic minority, it�s their own fault they get abused or victimised. They should wear a disguise.

[Supernick]

Isn't Waldo's answer pretty much final on this? He represents only himself, and unfortunately has a platform to speak from. No-one agrees with his statements, and he may not even believe them himself having retracted his words, so he's just an idiot spouting nonsense. Next debate.

[NikkiB]

First of all, having lived in the South of France and been hassled morning noon and night by Arab - probably mostly Muslim - males for no other reason than my walking down the street, I believe there is something nasty in the Arab/Islamic culture with regards to women and dealing with women on an equal footing. When I returned to live in England, I was so relieved to be surrounded by the maligned British man, who may not be the most romantic souls in the world, but are light years ahead in their respect of women. Are British men any less red-blooded than, say, an Egyptian like this treble-thick Sheikh? No, they are simply more civilised. I would rather endure a British man's cack-handed attempt at asking me out on a date than a medieval desert-dweller making a clumsy grab for my genitals.
As for this Sheikh, who I understand is roughly an Islamic equivalent of the Archbishop of Canterbury, has he considered that by going out in a dress with his sexy white beard uncovered he is spelling out a very provocative message to a gay rapist? Ouch.

[NikkiB]

Supernick - however comforting a belief it is for some people, that sheikh's opinion of women IS prevalent in the Islamic world. There aren't many - if any - Islamic countries where women have complete choice in what they can wear. If it isn't a misogynistic govt who are forcing them to cover up, it's some rabble of aggressive zealots who have tacit public approval in enforcing dress codes.
No-one agrees with the treble-thick Sheikh's statements? I'd laugh my head off if it wasn't such a serious matter. Do you not know how many women are executed/honour killed/imprisoned for life for the crime of zina? Zina means adultery and adultery charges are brought when a woman can't prove she was raped. And women often have to declare they were victims of rape rather than keep it to themselves because if they concieve a child as a result of that rape, the State or their Family will kill them anyway. There is no male equivalent of this disgraceful dilemma.
There are three certainties in life - death, taxes, and the systematic opression of women in Islamist cultures.

[azif]

Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: Fine but not enough.

1. If �civilization� is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America, dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot?

2. If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like University of Essex has a �walk home service� for female students on campus?

3. If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace on the news media every day?

[azif]

NikkiB -

In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women�s bodies and women�s reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished, �And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors� Quran (24:4).

[azif]

The problem we have is
"Culture is represented as Islam"

We should try and distinguish between the two.

The opression of women is mostly down to cultural values that people hold higher than Islam. A true Muslim will always put Islam first and his culture as secondary when making decisions.