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Scum or Victim
Father of 15 who lives with girlfriend and wife claims Britan is ''going down the pan'' as he can't get a bigger council house. What do you think?
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-233 74683-details/Father%20of%2015%20who%20moaned% 20about%20council%20house%20to%20be%20a%20dad% 20again%20-%20%3Cu%3Etwice%3Cu%3E/article.do
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-233 74683-details/Father%20of%2015%20who%20moaned% 20about%20council%20house%20to%20be%20a%20dad% 20again%20-%20%3Cu%3Etwice%3Cu%3E/article.do
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.. and this is about the same person in March
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/ 4834012.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/ 4834012.stm
How do you "look as if you might have learning disabilities"???? Bloody hell.
I have several thoughts on this. Firstly I have no problem with the number of children he has per se, that's his business (we have ten children ourselves). Secondly, this man does not claim unemployment benefit, he is on some form of disability and clearly used to work as a soldier then as a baker, so obviously paid taxes on what he earned for possibly a considerable number of years.Thirdly, as far as I am concerned it's no-one else's business how he conducts his social life, he is welcome to have as many girlfriends as he wishes. Fourthly, he does have a point that a 3 bedroomed house is inadequate for his family's needs.Legislation on that matter is there for a reason.
Now take all of that into consideration, we are actually looking at a man who has in the past paid into society via his taxes and now would like a decent standard of living for his children. People in this country are often horrified at the idea of very large families for some reason. It's not ideal since he is not supporting them via his own work at the moment, but then we have to examine the idea that if we stopped him having kids because he claims disability allowance, are we going to do the same thing to anyone claiming a benefit, or limit the number of children they have? That's a very slippery slope to embark upon.
I don't think the man is scum, neither do I think he is a victim. I wouldn't personally have a family of any sort if I couldn't support them myself, but I wouldn't be wanting to deny that to anyone else, and God forbid, if tomorrow I broke my back and couldn't work, and my business interests went belly up, would I then be scum if I was obliged to claim a benefit? Would my kids be dross because their Dad was signing on? I don't think so, and I don't think any of us should be so quick to judge someone we don't know.
I have several thoughts on this. Firstly I have no problem with the number of children he has per se, that's his business (we have ten children ourselves). Secondly, this man does not claim unemployment benefit, he is on some form of disability and clearly used to work as a soldier then as a baker, so obviously paid taxes on what he earned for possibly a considerable number of years.Thirdly, as far as I am concerned it's no-one else's business how he conducts his social life, he is welcome to have as many girlfriends as he wishes. Fourthly, he does have a point that a 3 bedroomed house is inadequate for his family's needs.Legislation on that matter is there for a reason.
Now take all of that into consideration, we are actually looking at a man who has in the past paid into society via his taxes and now would like a decent standard of living for his children. People in this country are often horrified at the idea of very large families for some reason. It's not ideal since he is not supporting them via his own work at the moment, but then we have to examine the idea that if we stopped him having kids because he claims disability allowance, are we going to do the same thing to anyone claiming a benefit, or limit the number of children they have? That's a very slippery slope to embark upon.
I don't think the man is scum, neither do I think he is a victim. I wouldn't personally have a family of any sort if I couldn't support them myself, but I wouldn't be wanting to deny that to anyone else, and God forbid, if tomorrow I broke my back and couldn't work, and my business interests went belly up, would I then be scum if I was obliged to claim a benefit? Would my kids be dross because their Dad was signing on? I don't think so, and I don't think any of us should be so quick to judge someone we don't know.
Well done Nox. As always the voice of reason on AB. There is a definite knee jerk reaction to people with large families claiming benefits.
Maybe we should look at the system rather than the people supported by it.
In many cases a couple with children living in rented property would be financially better off claiming benefits rather than working.
In this instance can anyone honestly say they would still work if they could get more money sitting at home?
Its always worth looking at the whole picture.
Although someone like Lizzie Bardsley who made a fortune from claiming benefits and then tried to pass herself of a a "celebrity" should be barred from ever claiming benefit again.
Maybe we should look at the system rather than the people supported by it.
In many cases a couple with children living in rented property would be financially better off claiming benefits rather than working.
In this instance can anyone honestly say they would still work if they could get more money sitting at home?
Its always worth looking at the whole picture.
Although someone like Lizzie Bardsley who made a fortune from claiming benefits and then tried to pass herself of a a "celebrity" should be barred from ever claiming benefit again.
As long as the kids are loved and well looked after, I dont care .I know someone who is from a family of 13 who are grown up and most of them are very well off and respectable people.i saw that this guy had worked before too, it's just another story for the papers because he's on disability.There are a lot of kids out there living in terrible conditions that no-one hears about.Like i said, if they are being brought up in a happy home with good values, what's the problem?
I do agree with nox to a degree..although I do wonder how the guys health problems actually hinder him..he can run a household, 2 women & 15 kids after all..as well as make more of them ;o)
I did briefly read an article about this family the other day. In the interview he admitted to being frustrated at the lack of care given by his local council, and the fact that he needs a bigger home. He went on to state that he and the women had decided to increase the brood in order to get the council to ''pull their fingers out''.
I do have a problem with this...no child should be conceived for this reason, although I know it happens all over the country.
Heck. I need a bigger home too..so we are working hard & building an extension!
I did briefly read an article about this family the other day. In the interview he admitted to being frustrated at the lack of care given by his local council, and the fact that he needs a bigger home. He went on to state that he and the women had decided to increase the brood in order to get the council to ''pull their fingers out''.
I do have a problem with this...no child should be conceived for this reason, although I know it happens all over the country.
Heck. I need a bigger home too..so we are working hard & building an extension!
How do you "look as if you might have learning disabilities"????
You look like the one on the left of the picture. To be more accurate, she looks like she might be suffering from Downs Syndrome, which does cause easily noticeable physiological changes. The other one looks fairly normal, but one wonders what "normal" woman would enter into such a relationship.
Anyway, to answer noxlumos's points:
1) It's no business of anyone's how many children he has, until he stops providing for them and the taxpayer has to pick up the slack.
2) "Disability" - we don't know the ins-ands-outs, but as someone pointed out, he seems capable of having a fair old amount of sex. I'm sure we all know of people who are on disability but are perfectly capable of working cash-in-hand when it suits. This guy could be genuinely sick, but his proclivities suggest not.
3) See (1), though if the women do have any sort of learning or mental disabilities I would class his actions as bordering on paedophilia.
4) See (1) again, though I would like to point out that I would like a whole bunch of cats. However, I can neither afford to feed them etc nor a house big enough for them to live in. Should I ask the rest of AB to pay for my hypothetical menagerie?
You look like the one on the left of the picture. To be more accurate, she looks like she might be suffering from Downs Syndrome, which does cause easily noticeable physiological changes. The other one looks fairly normal, but one wonders what "normal" woman would enter into such a relationship.
Anyway, to answer noxlumos's points:
1) It's no business of anyone's how many children he has, until he stops providing for them and the taxpayer has to pick up the slack.
2) "Disability" - we don't know the ins-ands-outs, but as someone pointed out, he seems capable of having a fair old amount of sex. I'm sure we all know of people who are on disability but are perfectly capable of working cash-in-hand when it suits. This guy could be genuinely sick, but his proclivities suggest not.
3) See (1), though if the women do have any sort of learning or mental disabilities I would class his actions as bordering on paedophilia.
4) See (1) again, though I would like to point out that I would like a whole bunch of cats. However, I can neither afford to feed them etc nor a house big enough for them to live in. Should I ask the rest of AB to pay for my hypothetical menagerie?
He's 49, the wife is 25 and the girfriend is 22.
He is old enough to be THEIR father, never mind their childrens' father. I just hope the poor bl00dy children can cope with the sh1t they are going to get at school from the other kids.
What's the betting that in 10 years time this lot will be on some reality TV show, bragging about their three people carriers, 16 bed mansion and the amount of government handouts they receive, whilst their neighbours desperately try to sell up to escape the ASBO riddled family next door?
The thing I object to most is that there isn't an upper limit to the benefits they can get. If there was a financial cap, I bet he wouldn't be so quick to breed!
He is old enough to be THEIR father, never mind their childrens' father. I just hope the poor bl00dy children can cope with the sh1t they are going to get at school from the other kids.
What's the betting that in 10 years time this lot will be on some reality TV show, bragging about their three people carriers, 16 bed mansion and the amount of government handouts they receive, whilst their neighbours desperately try to sell up to escape the ASBO riddled family next door?
The thing I object to most is that there isn't an upper limit to the benefits they can get. If there was a financial cap, I bet he wouldn't be so quick to breed!
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