david kelly

[tracymort]

On the news they are talking about his death but there is no mention how it happened. was it suicide, accident or murder? i would guess as they have discussed him coping with it all that they are thinking suicide.

[treaclefight]

slashed wrists after taking painkillers, died from blood loss, obviously appears to be suicide although the way the media are grabbing hold of this you'd thing tony blair had shot him. very sad when anyone gets to that level of despair whatever their ability to cope.

[parkhead]

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_801446.html?m
enu= Has this story.

[paulz]

i feel very sad for his wife and daughters taht they'v been left to cope with the fallout from all this. Maybe from here on in the spin/sexing will end? mmm doubt it

[comloulou]

Please dont take this as harsh but surely if all it took was an admittedly horrible grilling at the hands of a commitee and some adverse publicity to drive this man to suicide he wasnt 100% to begin with and Geoff Hoon as his boss shouldve either taken the flack or not afforded someone so fragile such responisbility.

[treaclefight]

i'm with you comloulou, he does seem to have been a more fragile character than anyone realised, however, i think i will end up being harsh, his family would have bent over backwards to help him, his boss could have protected him, but you can't help those who won't help themselves. we've had a family member commit suicide, ten years later i'm still more angry with her for the devastation that that act caused than i am sympathetic to how she was feeling. i dont want to feel like this and i'm not sure it's right, but in all honesty it is how i feel. in this case i think the anger will be directed at the government and the bbc for their part in the whole tragic story, but i still think that there are other ways he could have escaped, drinking too much, maybe drugs, running away to rio, joining the foreign legion... all ridiculous i agree but infinitely better than denying the people who loved him any chance to make things better in the future. i wait now to be cricufied by people who know better than me what suicidal people go through...i probably deserve it, honesty not a good thing in all circumstances.

[andy hughes]

No one will know the pressure David Kelly was feeling at the time of his death, but it is the likelyhood of the increased expsoure of this shy individual, that may have been a contributing factor. What ever the reasons, suicide is not the act of a rational mind, so the alternative solutions, including help from friends and family, or escape of any other kind, will not have been in this poor man's mind at the time of his death. Anger with a suicide is a natrual reaction, along with the thought that something could have been done. the sad fact is, at the moment of death, the person feels nothing can help them, and death really is a preferable exit out of the way they feel at that time, and nothing anyone could say or do would alter that. Sad, but true.

[PaulYukochan]

but andy, if you are on trial in the US and facing the death penalty if found guilty, and you plead for the death penalty, they do not take that as sign of an irrational mind and thus send you to mental hospital.

[PaulYukochan]

what i mean is, your statement that suicide is not rational is a little presumptious - as to a persons religious, and emotional convictions, as well as motivations for giving up their life. IF a soldier dives on a grenade to save his friend is that irrational? and if Tony Blair hires Neil and Chrisitne hamilton to murder you and make it look like suicide, does that make you irrational?

[andy hughes]

Paul, I hate to take the moral high ground here, but three years as a Samaritan, and nine months as a psychiatric in-patient (the two are not connected!) means that I do know what I'm talking about - and I repeat, suicide is not the action of a rational mind. In this instance, all the evidence points to this poor man taking his life whle the balance of his mind was disturned, and neither of the tow arguments you have proposed make that less so. A ludicrious scenario involving Tony Blair, and the selfless act of saving life by giving a life do not equate with these circumstances, and I can only repeat, David Kelly was under sufficient pressure, I would not resume to know how or why, to take his own life, and we should all think of he poor family, and him, beyond the help he needed when he needed it.

[andy hughes]

Adendum - it was three months in hospital, six further months of recuperation, making nine months off work.

[treaclefight]

suicide cannot be rational, at our most basic levels we a re designed to choose life over death, at more sophisticated human levels i cannot see how people can forget how much other people care about their life and how loved ones would feel about their death. in the case of the suicide in our family, it is the attempts to rationalise her actions (attempts by well meaning people and the note she left) that leave us most angry and frustrated. david kelly had a wife and daughters, how could he be so self absorbed that he could forget their feelings and still be classed as rational. in answer to paul, there is nothing rational about the death penalty or the way it is used in the USA, its not a good example. by religious convictions i have to assume you mean suicide bombers as i cannot think of any religion that promotes suicide as an option, nor is there any religious text promoting suicide as a military tactic which is what these people are doing, that may be rational on a military level but not on a human one. giving up your life to save another is not suicide and i'm afraid i didnt understand the point about the hamiltons. in short the only people who can see suicide as a rational option are people who, for one reason or another, have lost their reason (euthanasia is entirely different category that i would deal with much more gently another time). i'm aware all this may be coming across as a bit aggressive and apologise in advance for offense caused, it's a sore subject for me too.

[andy hughes]

I'm sorry to read that you have personal experience of suicide in your family treaclefight, my sympathy is entirely with you and yours. If it helps in any way, I can assure you that anyone who has finally committed suicide was well past the ability to externalise as far as family and loved ones, and the effect their action may have on those left behind. It comes down to utter desperation, and the belief that no more time can be endure in the state of mind existing. It is entirely about isolation and desparation, and a means to find relief from it. Of course loved ones feel angy and confused, and wonder if they could have helped. The sad answer is not they could not - if the suicdial person was able to ask for, and receive help, they would do so - it's not an act of anger or malice, it is simply a means to end those feelings once and for all - blessed relief and peace is all the mind can consider. I do hope this may help you in coming to terms with your loss _ know nothing really helps, but you can try and lose the guilt you feel, you were not to blame, and you couldn't have helped, so try and understand that your loved one is at peace, evenif their method of finding that peace has left you all behind to grieve for their loss.

[treaclefight]

cheers andy, not something that comes up in conversation very often, i didn't realise i had quite so much to rant about, i bet tracyh wishes they'd never asked :-)