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Vicious hammer attack on teenager
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/6 257933.stm
This news it seems is now being reported somewhat low key.
At the first report of this savage attack, they stated that 8 Asian males between the ages of 14 years old and 20years old, had attacked a 15 year old white boy, at Ridgeway School in Wroughton Nr. Swidon, and that the Police were not classing it as a racial attack.
Since then no mention has been made that these attackers were in fact Asian, had it been 8 white males attacking a Asian lad with a hammer, do you think it would have been reported any differently?
This news it seems is now being reported somewhat low key.
At the first report of this savage attack, they stated that 8 Asian males between the ages of 14 years old and 20years old, had attacked a 15 year old white boy, at Ridgeway School in Wroughton Nr. Swidon, and that the Police were not classing it as a racial attack.
Since then no mention has been made that these attackers were in fact Asian, had it been 8 white males attacking a Asian lad with a hammer, do you think it would have been reported any differently?
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yes i think it would have been. If it was the other way round and white people where the attackers it would straight away be seen as a racist attack. The school has had racist problems with the "asian invasion" for a long time now, ask anybody (beside the head teacher) and they will tell you this was a racist attack.
I may be wrong, but I am lead to believe that an offence is "racist" if it's deemed by the victim or witnesses as racist. So if a person is attacked by people of another race, naturally that person wants them to be punished as harshly as possible. "Racist" crimes ARE punished more harshly so it stands to reason that many victims would - ahem - deem the offence racist purely in the hope of a heavier sentence. It's human nature. There have been an awful lot of cases recently where white on black crime is automatically and universally called a race attack whereas there is more caution with say, black/Asian on white attacks. No attack is acceptable but I can see a little inequity here. Is it because as whites make up 90% of the population, the PTB are trying to avoid the majority rounding on the minority?
A while back, a Muslim girl aged 15 in my town went missing. I live in an area that is 99% white so there is no turf war between creeds. The police were quite shameless in touting their fear that she had been abducted by white racists. That kind of crime was unprecendented but it was still a theory hawked around the media at the time with interviews of her family fearing the same fate had befallen her. (do the police ever publicise theories about white girls being abducted by Asian/black racists?)
About a week later she was found alive and well 50 miles away. She hadn't been abducted. She'd run away from her family. No whites or racists in the equation. No apologies for the random slur on indigenous Brits, either.
A while back, a Muslim girl aged 15 in my town went missing. I live in an area that is 99% white so there is no turf war between creeds. The police were quite shameless in touting their fear that she had been abducted by white racists. That kind of crime was unprecendented but it was still a theory hawked around the media at the time with interviews of her family fearing the same fate had befallen her. (do the police ever publicise theories about white girls being abducted by Asian/black racists?)
About a week later she was found alive and well 50 miles away. She hadn't been abducted. She'd run away from her family. No whites or racists in the equation. No apologies for the random slur on indigenous Brits, either.
Not sure how "a fear that she had been abducted by white racist gang" can be turned into " random slur on indigenous Brits" unless of course you believe indigenous Brits are all white racist gangs.
Or do you think the police should have apologised to white racist gangs (and maybe even thanked them for not kidnapping) - they are the only people slurred.
I have read this story in one of the rags and must say that it does sound to me (without knowing any of the facts) like a racist attack and there seems to have been previous problems in the school with gang behaviour.
Or do you think the police should have apologised to white racist gangs (and maybe even thanked them for not kidnapping) - they are the only people slurred.
I have read this story in one of the rags and must say that it does sound to me (without knowing any of the facts) like a racist attack and there seems to have been previous problems in the school with gang behaviour.
anotheoldgit.
It's not true that black on white murders are not referred to as 'race crimes'. The grang that kidnapped and killed Kriss MacDonald were all convicted of racially motivated murder.
Now...did you know that there's been 68 racist murders since the death of Stephen Lawrence.
When you have such a vast number of black and Asian people being (and let's be frank here), ethnically cleansed by white racists, it seems a bit blinkered to suddenly get offended when you perceive that Asians are being given special treatment.
The only special treatment that they seem to be getting, is a greater chance of being murdered.
You may want to read up on the cases in question:
http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000008.h tml
It's not true that black on white murders are not referred to as 'race crimes'. The grang that kidnapped and killed Kriss MacDonald were all convicted of racially motivated murder.
Now...did you know that there's been 68 racist murders since the death of Stephen Lawrence.
When you have such a vast number of black and Asian people being (and let's be frank here), ethnically cleansed by white racists, it seems a bit blinkered to suddenly get offended when you perceive that Asians are being given special treatment.
The only special treatment that they seem to be getting, is a greater chance of being murdered.
You may want to read up on the cases in question:
http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000008.h tml
How often do we see in local as well as national papers,that the police are looking for a man,who raped a woman, or stabbed a man to death,but they never say the man is black or asian,but the first time a white man rapes or murders someone especially if they are black or asian the policeand papers description is we are looking for a white man. blah blah. blah. The fact is there is a lot of racist attacks now on white people by blacks and asians which goes unreported, go down any city in this country after dark if your white if you dare
I have read the site you posted sp1814. But as soon as I notice where the information came from ( The Institute of Race Relations) it came as no suprise that it would be somewhat one-sided, in favour of the Ethnic Minorities.
This quango and it's officers make a very good living out of the organisation they belong to, so it is in their own interests to create a divide between the races, or they would be out of a very well paid job.
It is as Little Willie says many attacks on whites by Black and Asian go unreported, and until we also have an organiasion to gather and report racial attacks against whites we will get this imbalance.
You also found it neccesary to mention Stephen Lawrence in your answer, why oh why whenever the subject of a racist attack is introduced, his name is forever mentioned. He is no more different from any other person White, Black, Brown or any other colour, who is brutaly murdered. And yet we saw the top brass at his funeral and memorial service and a memorial erected in his memory, his name set to go down in the annals of history. I do believe even Tony Blair gave comfort to Stephen's parents, that's more than he has to the parents of all those young lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This quango and it's officers make a very good living out of the organisation they belong to, so it is in their own interests to create a divide between the races, or they would be out of a very well paid job.
It is as Little Willie says many attacks on whites by Black and Asian go unreported, and until we also have an organiasion to gather and report racial attacks against whites we will get this imbalance.
You also found it neccesary to mention Stephen Lawrence in your answer, why oh why whenever the subject of a racist attack is introduced, his name is forever mentioned. He is no more different from any other person White, Black, Brown or any other colour, who is brutaly murdered. And yet we saw the top brass at his funeral and memorial service and a memorial erected in his memory, his name set to go down in the annals of history. I do believe even Tony Blair gave comfort to Stephen's parents, that's more than he has to the parents of all those young lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Oneyedvic - to theorise that a missing Muslim girl has been abducted by white racists IS a slur on white people. In the same way that if a white girl disappeared in Bradford and police said they feared she had been abducted by Muslim racists/terrorists, without any grounds to suspect such a crime, it is a slur on Muslims. In fact to state "white racists" as opposed to just "racists" is in itself....racist.
Sp - 68 racist murders since Stephen Lawrence's death. Here's the problem: who deemed the deaths as racist? In the ad hoc law scrabbled together by New Labour, anything is possible.
I believe the clause of racist crimes to be deeply flawed anyway. It's far too open to abuse. Why aren't there special charges for persecutors of lispers, limpers, the overweight, the underweight?
Sp - 68 racist murders since Stephen Lawrence's death. Here's the problem: who deemed the deaths as racist? In the ad hoc law scrabbled together by New Labour, anything is possible.
I believe the clause of racist crimes to be deeply flawed anyway. It's far too open to abuse. Why aren't there special charges for persecutors of lispers, limpers, the overweight, the underweight?
When the police 'theorise' that they are looking for someone / groups of people, they are theorising.
And you think they should apologise for putting out a theory?
So, going one step further, if the police announce they are looking for a man aged 18-30 for an attack and it turns out that it was a 50 year old who committed the attack, the police should obviously apologise to anyone aged 18-30? (or if no one committed the attack, the police should apologise to all men)
Yes, I am obviously being very thick.
And you think they should apologise for putting out a theory?
So, going one step further, if the police announce they are looking for a man aged 18-30 for an attack and it turns out that it was a 50 year old who committed the attack, the police should obviously apologise to anyone aged 18-30? (or if no one committed the attack, the police should apologise to all men)
Yes, I am obviously being very thick.
Make no mistake this was a racially motivated attack,and if it was 8 white lads attacking an asian with an hammer, it would be getting a mention in the house of commons, sky news and all the national papers, but hey white people in this country don't matter anymore, lets all sit back and relax
and in 20 years time we will all be called to prayer every 4 hours. Or to put it blunt get TONY and is TOERAG OF A GOVERNMENT out..
and in 20 years time we will all be called to prayer every 4 hours. Or to put it blunt get TONY and is TOERAG OF A GOVERNMENT out..
"Make no mistake this was a racially motivated attack,"
Glad to see that you know all the circumstances of the crime - I was under the impression that the police were still questioning the suspects.
Still - nice to see that you keep an open mind (unless of course you are the eye witness mentioned in the reports - in which case I apologise).
Just because one group of people attack an individual does not make it racist. If the gang attacked a load of other people including those of the same colour, it obviously wouldn't be racist.
I doubt that you know much about the case (other than what you have read) and know nothing about the particular gang who are in police detention.
If this gang has a history of attacking white kids, then fair enough, it is a racist attack, but it certainly hasn't been reported like this yet.
Glad to see that you know all the circumstances of the crime - I was under the impression that the police were still questioning the suspects.
Still - nice to see that you keep an open mind (unless of course you are the eye witness mentioned in the reports - in which case I apologise).
Just because one group of people attack an individual does not make it racist. If the gang attacked a load of other people including those of the same colour, it obviously wouldn't be racist.
I doubt that you know much about the case (other than what you have read) and know nothing about the particular gang who are in police detention.
If this gang has a history of attacking white kids, then fair enough, it is a racist attack, but it certainly hasn't been reported like this yet.
anotheoldgit
The reason I had to mention Stephen Lawrence is because the figures I gave you were compiled by the Institute of Race Relations, and they'd been compiling figures since that murder.
It's a pretty infamous murder, and I suppose the IRR thought it pertinent to use that as a benchmark date.
The reason why Stephen Lawrence's murder was so important to the black community...and I want you to understand this, because it's very important:
Stephen Lawrence was the absolute ideal black teenager. A Level student, well brought up in a Christian family...he was the kind of black teenager that the Daily Mail wants all black kids to be like.
...and his murder showed that now matter how good you are as a black person in this country, there is still a minority of white racists who will execute you as if it's 1930 Alabama.
Now...can you see what that might to do any disaffected black youths who see ALL white people as the enemy?
Also, it's a fact that the police lost precious hours after the attack because they suspected Stephen and his mates of being 'dodgy' themselves.
Now, think about how angry you are because of perceived racism in the way that racist crimes are reported when white people are the victims and multiply that by the sense of fury that we've felt over the past forty years.
Yep...and I'm one of the lucky ones - I had a good education, and a solid family background...however, my ex lived in Eltham so you never know...it could've easily been me!
The reason I had to mention Stephen Lawrence is because the figures I gave you were compiled by the Institute of Race Relations, and they'd been compiling figures since that murder.
It's a pretty infamous murder, and I suppose the IRR thought it pertinent to use that as a benchmark date.
The reason why Stephen Lawrence's murder was so important to the black community...and I want you to understand this, because it's very important:
Stephen Lawrence was the absolute ideal black teenager. A Level student, well brought up in a Christian family...he was the kind of black teenager that the Daily Mail wants all black kids to be like.
...and his murder showed that now matter how good you are as a black person in this country, there is still a minority of white racists who will execute you as if it's 1930 Alabama.
Now...can you see what that might to do any disaffected black youths who see ALL white people as the enemy?
Also, it's a fact that the police lost precious hours after the attack because they suspected Stephen and his mates of being 'dodgy' themselves.
Now, think about how angry you are because of perceived racism in the way that racist crimes are reported when white people are the victims and multiply that by the sense of fury that we've felt over the past forty years.
Yep...and I'm one of the lucky ones - I had a good education, and a solid family background...however, my ex lived in Eltham so you never know...it could've easily been me!
Nikki
Strangely, I understand where you're coming from (regarding the racial element of crime).
However, as a black man, if I had a group of skinheads shouting racist abuse at me (as was so charmingly regular during the 1970s when I lived near Bermondsey), it would prevoke an incredibly strong reaction in me.
I don't know your racial background, but honest, when a someone from a minority group feels abused by the majority...it just pushes very dangerous buttons.
I would want crimes which had racist elements to be prosecuted to a much heavier degree. Don't you think that when a gang of Asians or a gang of white kids who murder someone from another racial group are just racking up the racial hate between people?
Or do you think that even if someone is being stabbed 13 times because he's a white kid, we should just ignore that???
Strangely, I understand where you're coming from (regarding the racial element of crime).
However, as a black man, if I had a group of skinheads shouting racist abuse at me (as was so charmingly regular during the 1970s when I lived near Bermondsey), it would prevoke an incredibly strong reaction in me.
I don't know your racial background, but honest, when a someone from a minority group feels abused by the majority...it just pushes very dangerous buttons.
I would want crimes which had racist elements to be prosecuted to a much heavier degree. Don't you think that when a gang of Asians or a gang of white kids who murder someone from another racial group are just racking up the racial hate between people?
Or do you think that even if someone is being stabbed 13 times because he's a white kid, we should just ignore that???
I have read your post a number of times sp1814 but cannot seem to get on the same track as your reasonings.
Why is The Steven Laurence murder so infamous for the I.R.R to use it as a bench mark?
You say that the reason his murder was so important to the Black Community, was because he was a well brought up, well educated Christian Black Teenager. I think this is absolutly disgusting, and a slur on all other Teenagers that perhaps are not so advantaged as Stephen was. Are these others no more important? If a white person had said this, it would have most likely had provoked a riot.
Your post to nikki was also very interesting and once again rather one sided.
Can you not also understand that if a person from a majority group who feels abused by some minority group, this can also press dangerous buttons, why do you infer that it only happens to the Black community, but then we do not have the protection and advantages of belonging to a separate (white) community.
And referring to the second before last paragraph of your answer to nikki, I notice there is no mention of Blacks murdering someone from another racial group, why?
3 recent murders by blacks and asians on whites, how many of these three names readily slip off the tongue or have even now been forgotten?
Mary Ann Leneghan
Gavin Hopley
Kriss Donald
In fact in Gavin Hopley's case a memorial plaque was erected by the BNP in his memory but was later removed by the Local Authority, how many people heard of this?
Why is The Steven Laurence murder so infamous for the I.R.R to use it as a bench mark?
You say that the reason his murder was so important to the Black Community, was because he was a well brought up, well educated Christian Black Teenager. I think this is absolutly disgusting, and a slur on all other Teenagers that perhaps are not so advantaged as Stephen was. Are these others no more important? If a white person had said this, it would have most likely had provoked a riot.
Your post to nikki was also very interesting and once again rather one sided.
Can you not also understand that if a person from a majority group who feels abused by some minority group, this can also press dangerous buttons, why do you infer that it only happens to the Black community, but then we do not have the protection and advantages of belonging to a separate (white) community.
And referring to the second before last paragraph of your answer to nikki, I notice there is no mention of Blacks murdering someone from another racial group, why?
3 recent murders by blacks and asians on whites, how many of these three names readily slip off the tongue or have even now been forgotten?
Mary Ann Leneghan
Gavin Hopley
Kriss Donald
In fact in Gavin Hopley's case a memorial plaque was erected by the BNP in his memory but was later removed by the Local Authority, how many people heard of this?
anotheoldgit
The Kriss Donald story!
I mentioned that one. That is, to me, is one of the most horrific crimes that I've read in recent history. Now, the reason why I say that racist crimes need to be treated more harshly by the courts is that it provokes a real deep anger in the community surrounding that person.
Tell me - who's murder makes you more angry: Kriss Donald (murdered by a group of Asian thugs), Anthony Walker (murdered by racists in Liverpool - axe in the head) or Jody Dobrowski (stamped on the head in a homophobic attack)?
What happens is whenever someone is killed because of their colour or sexuality, people from that same group start seeing the perpetrator's group (not just the actual perpetrators) as 'the enemy'.
This, I believe, is why we now have gangs in Bradford, South London and Manchester who are divided along racial lines.
This is new...and in some ways, very old (Northern Ireland was a form of template).
Don't get me wrong - and I hate to use this phrase because it's such a PC cliche, but some of my best mates are white.
I just want to point out that there are many occasions where black killers of white victims become huge national stories...there was Thomas Ap Rhys for instance. I didn't even have to look his name up. That was a HUGE story in London.
The Kriss Donald story!
I mentioned that one. That is, to me, is one of the most horrific crimes that I've read in recent history. Now, the reason why I say that racist crimes need to be treated more harshly by the courts is that it provokes a real deep anger in the community surrounding that person.
Tell me - who's murder makes you more angry: Kriss Donald (murdered by a group of Asian thugs), Anthony Walker (murdered by racists in Liverpool - axe in the head) or Jody Dobrowski (stamped on the head in a homophobic attack)?
What happens is whenever someone is killed because of their colour or sexuality, people from that same group start seeing the perpetrator's group (not just the actual perpetrators) as 'the enemy'.
This, I believe, is why we now have gangs in Bradford, South London and Manchester who are divided along racial lines.
This is new...and in some ways, very old (Northern Ireland was a form of template).
Don't get me wrong - and I hate to use this phrase because it's such a PC cliche, but some of my best mates are white.
I just want to point out that there are many occasions where black killers of white victims become huge national stories...there was Thomas Ap Rhys for instance. I didn't even have to look his name up. That was a HUGE story in London.
By the way, you wrote:
"Can you not also understand that if a person from a majority group who feels abused by some minority group, this can also press dangerous buttons, why do you infer that it only happens to the Black community, but then we do not have the protection and advantages of belonging to a separate (white) community"
That is exactly why I wrote that those people who murdered Kriss Donald should be sentenced more harshly than if there were no racial element to the crime (see my response to Nikki).
Lastly, I absolutely believe to a degree of 100% that if you trawled through police statistics detailing hate crimes, the vast majority will not be against white people.
It would be interesting to see police stats on that.
"Can you not also understand that if a person from a majority group who feels abused by some minority group, this can also press dangerous buttons, why do you infer that it only happens to the Black community, but then we do not have the protection and advantages of belonging to a separate (white) community"
That is exactly why I wrote that those people who murdered Kriss Donald should be sentenced more harshly than if there were no racial element to the crime (see my response to Nikki).
Lastly, I absolutely believe to a degree of 100% that if you trawled through police statistics detailing hate crimes, the vast majority will not be against white people.
It would be interesting to see police stats on that.
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