New York Style Policing

[naomi24]

Leading on from Legend's question on young people killing each other, do you think it would help if we adopted the style of policing that New York has adopted? New York had a big problem with gang culture, etc, and having been there several times, I would say it's now one of the safest cities I've ever visited. There's a policeman (or several) on practically every corner and people can walk around without fear. It's not often I like the idea of adopting American ways, but in this case I think they've got it spot on. They've turned a violent place into a safe one, so could that be the answer for this country?.

[coco pops]

"There is a policeman on nearly every corner" thats the main point. Nowadays the police here are too busy doing paper work etc, there is no longer a local bobby . The police should be out on the streets not bogged down by paperwork.

[Lonnie]

On Saturday nights, for the town I live in, and the adjoining one, there are just two policemen/women on duty, and you never see them.

In answer to your question, most definately Yes.

[naomi24]

Thanks for your answers, cocopops and Lonnie. New York has proven it works, and I wish we would learn from them.

[pingping]

nah, our police are too busy handing out those wonderfully effective ASBOs to do any real policing. I wish the government would actually introduce some hardline policing methods and put an active and effective force back on the streets. As it stands, they can't do much until they get a decent system to back them up.

[crapmemory]

When my sons moped was stolen(and we knew who took it!) the police were too busy to even call round and told us to go and get the bike ourselves! One of his friends had a argument with a neighbour and called him a P**i. He reported him to the police and they turned up within half an hour. Is it me or is something not right here?

[naomi24]

No, it's not you crapmemory; there's plenty not right here.

[badboy4life]

the answer is two fold there has to be both tough policing and community policing both of which the yanks are great at.

[WaldoMcFroog]

When you say 'there's a policeman on every corner' may I be so bold as to suggest that you mean 'in Manhatten'?

I'm not sure that the case in the whole city!

[naomi24]

We got around quite a bit and there were police around wherever we went. The question is should we adopt their policy?

[madz]

i agree that policing in england may not be as effective as is required, and that asbos are really ineffectual as a police aid , but i must say that the american style of policing is unevenly heavy handed, as a lesbian i would find this type of policing overly tedious as there has been many reported cases of racial, gender and sexual orientation persecutions, one of the worst i have heard of from amnesty international
" In 2002, Kelly McAllister, a transgender woman was ordered out of her parked truck by officers. When she refused she was beaten, abused, pepper-sprayed, hog tied and dragged across a pavement face down. At the police station she was charged with assualting the police."

is this really what we would like to see here!

[naomi24]

madz - No, I'm sure we wouldn't - but why didn't she get out of the vehicle when asked to?

[madz]

well i don't know why she would not get out but i can say if i was in my truck being ordered out by a gang of police i might be scared, and does even the fact that she wouldn't get out of her truck give them the right to abuse her in such a way, seeing that she was locked in her truck when thay found her and could only charge her with assaulting the police why were they asking to get out of her truck?

[naomi24]

It seems you don't really know what happened here then. I know that if the police asked me to get out of my car, I wouldn't argue - I'd just get out and answer their questions. I can't say why they treated her as they did, because the situation isn't clear, but obviously something wasn't quite right. If she was charged with assaulting the police, perhaps there's more to it than first meets the eye.

[madz]

obviously you have never been victimized by the police because of your colour or sexuality, if you had then you too might be a little nervous about getting out of your vehicle,this case is used in the amnesty international publications and i am fully prepared to agree with them that this treatment is both unfair and highly unacceptable, this is just one case which i could name and date but am fully aware of many other cases.
even if as you say there are some unseen conditions around this case does it evoke such overhanded treatment of a lone woman.

[naomi24]

No, I haven't been victimised by the police, but then I have never been disrespectful to them, or broken the law. People shouldn't be victimised for any reason, but this person clearly did something because he/she was charged with assault. I don't know if the case you're referring to is that of a transgender male documented on the Amnesty International website, but if it is, he/she was arrested for 'loitering with intent to solicit'.

I get the impression that you have an agenda here. Why do you feel the need to tell us you're lesbian? If you disagree with victimisation, then just say it's wrong. Your personal sexuality is totally irrelevant to the debate. Victimisation on any grounds is wrong, and I'll say it's wrong, but in voicing that opinion I speak as a human being, so why should anyone need to know my ethnic background, my religion or my sexual preferences?

You say that tough policing is wrong because you think that one section of society is being victimised - but what about the rest of society? What about victims of crime? You clearly haven't given them a thought. Areas of New York were 'no-go zones' before this initiative, and now they're safe. Would you prefer it to be otherwise? Victimisation of minorities by police is wrong, but it's an entirely separate issue which needs to be addressed separately.

[con-amca]

Well said, naomi

[naomi24]

Thanks baldhair.

[madz]

i do not say that strong policing is wrong i say that i would not like to see new york style policing here, as i have been the victim of many crimes, many of which have been homophobic hate crimes i feel that my sexuality is part of the debate, when your partner is bleeding from a mallet wound in the head and the police have kicked off your door because" it must be the fault of the short haired dykes" and the true perpetrator of the crime is not apprehended until the officers senior arrived and you are left to try and calm down noradrenalin addicted officers before they "****" your partner just because of your sexuality, if i had presented as a female of hetero orientation this would never have happened but why should i have to dress and appear any way other than the way thathat i choose to, i have been stopped and searched just because of the way i looked, i have never broken the law in any way, i will not even drive if i have had a single drink, the policing in this country can be subject to the officers own prejudices, giving them more rights to victimise innocent people is not the way forward, i think more officers is the only way forward but with stronger rulings to protect innocent people, perhaps what is required is that more time is spent on actually helping victims and arresting perpetrators and less on profiling we would all be better off.

[naomi24]

madz - your sexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with this debate. It's not about a minority group or victimisation - it's about the safety of society as a whole, which you seem to care little about. You say more time should be spent in helping victims and arresting perpetrators. New York has fewer victims and fewer perpetrators now, and that's the whole point.

Incidentally.your partner bleeding from a mallet wound to the head and police kicking your door in? What sort of life do you live, for heaven's sake? Why don't you start another thread with your questions?

[pingping]

naomi, i don't think it's fair of you to negate another person's experiences at the hand's of the police just because you personally haven't witnessed or experienced it. i know a police officer, and believe me i've heard a fair number of stories as to what they get up to if they think they can get away with it.