Status of captured Sailors and Marines

[Lonnie]

It got me wondering, Assuming our PM is telling the truth, and no deal was done, and no ransom of any kind was asked, then they weren't hostages.

They weren't put on trial, so they weren't spies.

We aren't at war with Iran, so they weren't POWs.

So, while they were being held in iran, and not forgetting how they came to be there, what would their status be known as?.

[parkesquay]

Humiliating!!

[Marvelman]

Never thought of it like that Lonnie, how about suspected trespassers,

[Lonnie]

parkesquay, you got that right,

Marvelman, thats certainly a possibility.

[jno]

hard to be sure: they were suspects rather than anything proven. But what would happen if, say, a dozen Iranians were found in a ship in the Channel and claimed they were just keeping an eye on the French Navy? My guess is pretty much what happened to the 15: solitary confinement (so they couldn't agree cover stories during questioning), handcuffs, and whatever psychological pressure we could put on them. But I'm not quite sure who 'we' would be: navy? police? And I'm not sure how we would categorise them.

Is there some general offence for people suspected of planning an invasion? Hostile activity threatening the realm of HM the queen, or something along those lines; and that's probably how the 15 were seen by the Iranians.

[Lonnie]

True jno, all the way through, the Iranians said they were spying, but in the end, they weren't accused of anything, so I reckon my question still stands.

[Oneeyedvic]

They will be known as Hostages as it is an emotive word and will help sell newspapers labour spin.

[jake-the-peg]

I think they just call them detainees at Guantanamo so probably the same as that I'd guess

[jno]

Detainees or captives would be fair descriptions, though they don't really specify the status. Suspected spies might be more specific. It doesn't sound as if they were charged with anything before questioning, but maybe you don't have to be in Iran. Likewise in Britain, wouldn't they just come up with some 'holding charge' such as breach of the peace until they got more details?

[kwicky]

But nothing physical was done to any of the sailors so you cannot say they were tortured.
What was done?
Measurements taken of Faye with sawing taking place in the background...maybe so that clothing could be found, she thought they were making a coffin for her.
Finger gestures, solitary confinement, intense questioning?
An unfounded report by the UK military the day before said that shipping was being used to arm the insurgents in Iraq and were using boats from Iran to ferry the arms.

Does this state of enhanced readyness not get through to the sailors minds in believing they are fighting an imaginary enemy so when they are arrested think only the worst.

It reminds me of when a suspect is arrested in this country and is told if innocent has nothing to fear. Maybe the sailors were just feeling guilty.

[jedimistress]

They will be known as whatever the media machine decides to label them as. Unfortunately I think it is "hostages" at the moment.

[scotchollie]

Consider then a bank robber who holds up a bank and the police surround the outside...

He forcefully, but nicely suggests that several people remain with him inside.

No deal is done, there is no trial and he is not at war with anyone. The people are fed, watered and well looked after inside.

Do we still have a hostage situation, or a bank robber with a lot of terrified 'guests'.

In my book, if someone is kept somewhere, no matter how well they are treated, if they are denied the right to leave the environment they are in, by free will and choice, then they are a hostage.

I do however agree that both Iran and the UK have used the situation for maximum propaganda and that is utterly shameful.

What is more shameful is that our government seem to be getting away with this sort of thing more and more often.

More shameful still is that we let them...

[Lonnie]

Our goverment is shameful anyway, more than that, despicable.

[dyli795]

Smodernworld for you! Here's a question; who thinks idiots outnumber level headed right thinking, fair people? Or, with a more etherial slant, what are your views on the balance between good and evil? (it's just all in the mind perhaps) but I honestly don't know, -Argh !!! how easy I get into a rant! Even if I'm sober! Forget it, we haven't time.