ChatterBank25 mins ago
What EXACTLY has Tony Blair done wrong?
In view of the day, my inquisitive teenagers asked me this, and to be honest I don't know why Tony Blair is any different to any other prime minister who gets the blame for anything and everything, my own view about this whole blame phenomena is that No one person is surely powerful enough to lead others into actions that they then have to take sole responsibility for. Can anyone help identify specific historic errors he has made? (Without rants or lectures about the war) Many thanks
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My main annoyance with Tony Blair (and nu labour in general) is their ability to stand up and SAY they are going to do something about one issue or another, and then do almost nothing about it.
Remember Blair saying "Crime and the causes of crime" and yet here we are years later with the most crime ridden society ever, with stabbings, shootings, drug dealing, binge drinking, and all sorts of anti social behaviour.
This is just one example, I have lost count of the times Blair has talked about sorting out a major problem and then you hear no more about it.
He is just all spin.
Remember Blair saying "Crime and the causes of crime" and yet here we are years later with the most crime ridden society ever, with stabbings, shootings, drug dealing, binge drinking, and all sorts of anti social behaviour.
This is just one example, I have lost count of the times Blair has talked about sorting out a major problem and then you hear no more about it.
He is just all spin.
Me again, but with another example.
In 1997 Labour put out a frightening announcement that "you have 24 hours to save the NHS". This was to stop people voting Conservative who they said would destroy the NHS.
And Labour won the 1997 election.
Yet here we are 10 years later with hospitals in debt, wards being closed, staff being laid off, hospitals being built but left empty.
Tonight I watched Panorama about the problems in materinity wards with lack of staff and babies dying during birth or just after because of a lack of trained midwives and other staff.
I should also point out that one of the hospitals, Barnet in London, ALL the mothers were immigrants. Blairs inability to tackle immigration has meant that hospitals and other services have been swamped by millions of people arriving in this country.
Do you know it is estimated we have nearly 1 MILLION illegal immigrants in this country (no one really knows exactly), many arriving during Blairs time in office.
Blair has not RUN the country but has stood back and let it run itself.
In 1997 Labour put out a frightening announcement that "you have 24 hours to save the NHS". This was to stop people voting Conservative who they said would destroy the NHS.
And Labour won the 1997 election.
Yet here we are 10 years later with hospitals in debt, wards being closed, staff being laid off, hospitals being built but left empty.
Tonight I watched Panorama about the problems in materinity wards with lack of staff and babies dying during birth or just after because of a lack of trained midwives and other staff.
I should also point out that one of the hospitals, Barnet in London, ALL the mothers were immigrants. Blairs inability to tackle immigration has meant that hospitals and other services have been swamped by millions of people arriving in this country.
Do you know it is estimated we have nearly 1 MILLION illegal immigrants in this country (no one really knows exactly), many arriving during Blairs time in office.
Blair has not RUN the country but has stood back and let it run itself.
Personally, I think Blair would have been absolutely fine had it not been for Iraq (granted, some people have other grievances as detailed above) - people were generally displeased that he lied to parliament in order to go to war and outright ignored any advice he was given regarding going to war in Iraq.
He could have even survived that (though he still would have lost a lot of support) had he gone about it honestly.
Blair's also introduced reforms which although they have gained him a lot of support, they're also rather divisive - for example, devolution. Personally? I'm for devolution, but there are plenty of people who aren't that Blair has annoyed.
To be honest, Blair hasn't actually done a bad job (note that I said not bad, I didn't say good) - everyone always says crime is through the roof and it's the end of the world, but it isn't really any different than it has been.
The NHS, although it does have several problems is second to none in an emergency (my grandfather's life has been saved multiple times by the NHS), and although it faces problems, they're not irreversible (as demonstrated by Gerry Robinson - without costing a penny).
Immigration? That's another one that actually tends to get rather hyped up, but a glance at a demographic map will allay the fears of even the most far-right bigot.
Overall, Blair's hardly been a wonder, but (as with pretty much any government), the problems under his premiership generally aren't actually that much worse than they have been in the past. His big downfall was over Iraq and the recent peerages scandal.
He could have even survived that (though he still would have lost a lot of support) had he gone about it honestly.
Blair's also introduced reforms which although they have gained him a lot of support, they're also rather divisive - for example, devolution. Personally? I'm for devolution, but there are plenty of people who aren't that Blair has annoyed.
To be honest, Blair hasn't actually done a bad job (note that I said not bad, I didn't say good) - everyone always says crime is through the roof and it's the end of the world, but it isn't really any different than it has been.
The NHS, although it does have several problems is second to none in an emergency (my grandfather's life has been saved multiple times by the NHS), and although it faces problems, they're not irreversible (as demonstrated by Gerry Robinson - without costing a penny).
Immigration? That's another one that actually tends to get rather hyped up, but a glance at a demographic map will allay the fears of even the most far-right bigot.
Overall, Blair's hardly been a wonder, but (as with pretty much any government), the problems under his premiership generally aren't actually that much worse than they have been in the past. His big downfall was over Iraq and the recent peerages scandal.
Two things: Iraq and staying too long.
It's not crime - overall crime has fallen by around and third and violent crime has stayed roughly the same. And it's not the NHS - Labour has cut waiting times vastly and employed thousands more doctors and nurses. The problem is, in no way are these two areas as glowingly positive as Labour promised. There are always headline-grabbing problems which, I hate to say, will either never go away or will be replaced by new problems. But you'll always get people who look at the state of the NHS and say 'But you promised!'
The Iraq war blew Blair's credibility out of the water and he couldn't possibly recover from it.
And the nature of British politics is such that the electorate grows tired of governments. It's been 10 years. And when people look around and see that Britain isn't the utopia they'd be promised, they wonder if a change of government might not help.
You'll often find that the same people that are most upset with Labour are the ones that were dancing and cheering when they were first elected. They wanted the new government to somehow make everything okay. If only!
It's not crime - overall crime has fallen by around and third and violent crime has stayed roughly the same. And it's not the NHS - Labour has cut waiting times vastly and employed thousands more doctors and nurses. The problem is, in no way are these two areas as glowingly positive as Labour promised. There are always headline-grabbing problems which, I hate to say, will either never go away or will be replaced by new problems. But you'll always get people who look at the state of the NHS and say 'But you promised!'
The Iraq war blew Blair's credibility out of the water and he couldn't possibly recover from it.
And the nature of British politics is such that the electorate grows tired of governments. It's been 10 years. And when people look around and see that Britain isn't the utopia they'd be promised, they wonder if a change of government might not help.
You'll often find that the same people that are most upset with Labour are the ones that were dancing and cheering when they were first elected. They wanted the new government to somehow make everything okay. If only!
I think he made a rod for his own back by personalising politiis (he was not the first, of course): by claiming credit for everything that went right he drew the blame for what went wrong. He's not personally responsible for the NHS or education, he has ministers who are supposed to sort these out; but of course everyone blames him personally.
But as Kromovaracun and NJOK say, Iraq has stripped him of moral authority: nobody believes anything he says. (His encouragement of spin doctors also contributed to this, but eariler PMs did the same; likewise his politicisation of the civil service only followed what Thatcher did). He's seen as misleading Parliament, and the country, about WMDs, so the whole basis for war was fabricated, and as being Bush's poodle. These were matters that did reflect on him personally, and he is paying the price; people are dying every day because of his actions.
Also, as NJOK said, people just get tired. Ten years is a long time.
But as Kromovaracun and NJOK say, Iraq has stripped him of moral authority: nobody believes anything he says. (His encouragement of spin doctors also contributed to this, but eariler PMs did the same; likewise his politicisation of the civil service only followed what Thatcher did). He's seen as misleading Parliament, and the country, about WMDs, so the whole basis for war was fabricated, and as being Bush's poodle. These were matters that did reflect on him personally, and he is paying the price; people are dying every day because of his actions.
Also, as NJOK said, people just get tired. Ten years is a long time.
What has Blair done wrong??? Where do I start.
1) Put us in two wars (Afghan and Iraq). No problem with that but with military cuts and cr4p equipment our boys (and the odd girl) are dying.
2) Got rid of many tax benefits (MIRAS, pension rights etc( to name but a few.
3) Foul immigration policy. Letting all and sundry in to the UK
4) Signed the ECHR. Rights for rapists, kiddy fiddlers, murderers etc.
5) Fiasco with Gurkha pensions. These boys helped put the Great in Brighton.
6) Over saw prisoners being released early, only to go and murder again or rape etc.
7) Has sold peerages. Corruption.
8) Petrol has gone through the sky
9) On paper has improved schools and NHS, but where is the real evidence??? MRSA, prescriptions charges on the up etc etc etc
10) Promotion of chav culture due to introduction of Community police as opposed to proper bobbies. ASBO law (a good thing) simply not strong enough.
I can continue all day if you like.
1) Put us in two wars (Afghan and Iraq). No problem with that but with military cuts and cr4p equipment our boys (and the odd girl) are dying.
2) Got rid of many tax benefits (MIRAS, pension rights etc( to name but a few.
3) Foul immigration policy. Letting all and sundry in to the UK
4) Signed the ECHR. Rights for rapists, kiddy fiddlers, murderers etc.
5) Fiasco with Gurkha pensions. These boys helped put the Great in Brighton.
6) Over saw prisoners being released early, only to go and murder again or rape etc.
7) Has sold peerages. Corruption.
8) Petrol has gone through the sky
9) On paper has improved schools and NHS, but where is the real evidence??? MRSA, prescriptions charges on the up etc etc etc
10) Promotion of chav culture due to introduction of Community police as opposed to proper bobbies. ASBO law (a good thing) simply not strong enough.
I can continue all day if you like.
You are quite right, it is not Tony alone, but as leader he does have to shoulder the responsibility for the decisions.
The main problem with this lot is they love to talk the talk but dont walk the walk. spin spin spin. They slated the Tories for sleeze but they are not better, all they can do is smear people and call them names such as racist if they have no argument.
Mr Brown of course robbed our pensions (dont see him going short in the future - at our expens) and sold of our gold not to mention presiding over massive tax hikes, albeit hidden. Tony must have known so he is just as guilty.
And lets not forget the 'low employment figures' achieved by the state employing them all !! HArdly good for the GDP.
Not all doom and gloom, at least Tony had the balls to sort out Sadam.
The main problem with this lot is they love to talk the talk but dont walk the walk. spin spin spin. They slated the Tories for sleeze but they are not better, all they can do is smear people and call them names such as racist if they have no argument.
Mr Brown of course robbed our pensions (dont see him going short in the future - at our expens) and sold of our gold not to mention presiding over massive tax hikes, albeit hidden. Tony must have known so he is just as guilty.
And lets not forget the 'low employment figures' achieved by the state employing them all !! HArdly good for the GDP.
Not all doom and gloom, at least Tony had the balls to sort out Sadam.
We do seem to break down into those that are appalled by taxation and those that aren't. As someone once said, the tax burden is what makes us a civilised country.
Ironically, the ones who complain most about paying tax are the same ones who complain at the state of our public services. Can't have it both ways. And I'd much rather have stealth taxes than stealth spending cuts - it's the poorest in society who suffer then.
And as for immigration, I've the current 'lax' policy to thank for the curry I had last night. Honestly, I have.
Ironically, the ones who complain most about paying tax are the same ones who complain at the state of our public services. Can't have it both ways. And I'd much rather have stealth taxes than stealth spending cuts - it's the poorest in society who suffer then.
And as for immigration, I've the current 'lax' policy to thank for the curry I had last night. Honestly, I have.
I think his fawning sycophancy over the idiot in the Whitehouse and his corrupt administration and blatant lies over the whole Iraq episode does it for me.
Not just the lies but being caught out and still denying everything. A bigger man would have come clean.
But then he's a politician and being spineless seems to be part of the job requirements these days.
Not just the lies but being caught out and still denying everything. A bigger man would have come clean.
But then he's a politician and being spineless seems to be part of the job requirements these days.
I don't personally think Labour can match the Tories for sleaze. After all, two Tories - Archer and Aitken - were convicted of perjury, which to my mind is one of the most serious of all crimes as it undermines the whole roots of British justice. (But I still think Mandelson should be shot on sight, of course.)
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